Newbie needs your advice!

[scubatoys]

A tad sensitive here? Makes me wonder what sort of financial relationship you have with Zeagle that is so strong that you talk trash about other types of dive gear and diving styles.

Hey overexposed... Honest... not sensitive at all. The financial relationship I have with Zeagle is the exact same one I have with OMS. I buy stuff from them... I sell stuff... I buy more. Pretty Simple.

As far as talking trash... maybe you didn't read what I wrote, or maybe I didn't explain myself properly. I've got no problem with BPW setups. I just sold a very good customer an OMS 100 lb, dual, comfort harness, and stainless plate. A system like that will run a few bucks more than a Zeagle.. so I'm not trying to "rip people off". Best way to do that is sell them the most expensive stuff. I've got OMS and Diverite and Oxy wings, harnesses etc. Got some by the pool for folks to check out. I've got one instructor that dives a Dive Rite harness, 8 that dive Zeagle. Each one of them could get any system at my dealer cost. They tried each and made their own personal decisions.

The diving you are doing is vastly different then the diving I usually do. Your in a DUI drysuit in Seattle. I'm normally in a shorty in Cozumel, Cayman, Palau... These days, I almost never dive cold. Occasionally I'll have to do an instructor course in the winter, then I'll toss on a dry suit.

I'm not sure you're body type... short, tall, fat, skinny. What works best for you may not work best for me. I was simply saying that coming out and saying Zeagles are crap, is no different than saying BPW setups are crap. Zeagle makes a quality product. If you are more comfortable in a BPW, great... you should use it. If one of my customers is.. even better, I'll sell it to him.

I, with tongue in cheek, mentioned that there are some guys out there who like looking overly tech to go jump in a training pond we have here that is only 30 feet deep. And they are using twin tanks... so they can stay... or 5 hours I guess.

There is no doubt that tech equipment has a place - and if someone needs it, wants, it ok, and I'll be happy to sell it to them. You said you spend 5K in one year with a shop. Without doing the tech side of the gear, that would be impossible. So yes, I've no problem with people who want to buy any kind of gear. I will gladly sell it to them without problem.

I do have a problem when someone is hypocritical enough to say I'm trashing gear, and I'm selling schlock.

As I said in the first post... there is bud and corona, McDonalds and Wendy's, ford and Chevy.

Ford drivers love to say Chevy's suck, so maybe I should just accept backplate wearers will say everything else sucks... Ok.. But please try to refrain from trying to make your points by making childish attacks on the personality and business of someone you have admitted you have never talked to or dealt with.

"Pickup line in a bar" - No... thank you I'm married and don't frequent bars.
"I sell schlock gear to the masses" We sell a variety of equipment, including the same DUI you dive... is that schlock?
"trying to compensate"... No.. no compensation here.

I normally would not spend the time to bother respond to this type of post... but felt compelled - hoping we could clear the air.

I go back to my comment; "shake hands, and to try to get along and accept each other."

 

[jonnythan]

I was wondering how long it would be before Larry took his swing at DIR.

Larry.. I love you, man

 

[Xanthro]

Not sure how you run your business, but you seem to like to talk trash about a growing market. Maybe there is no money in catering to the Tech divers. IMHO - to insinuate that reason that anyone who uses a BPW and a long hose is doing so to look cool is childish at best. I have to wonder who is trying to compensate here. Nice to know you have 5,000 dives. Is this your pickup line at the bar?

I've never purchased anything from Larry, I don't use a BP/W setup, but plan to in the future.

Nothing Larry posted seemed to me to insinuate anything about ALL long hose or DIR divers.

His example of the off road vehicle and diving was very good. I off road, so I have a Land Rover Discovery, a vehicle designed for off road use. Because of this, there are certain aspects to the car that aren't really suited for on road travel as well as a normal car. Such as the short wheel base. This makes getting into the backseat difficult, but a long wheel base destroys you breakover angle. 99% of people who drive Discoverys do not off road, and the 2005 model takes a big step down in OHV capability. Why, because the market now sells to those who neither need nor understand the reasoning behind the product.

Is that really where you want BP/W to go to? Sure my Disco is fine on road, except it's a little more bumpy, noisy, hard to turn, get in and out of, and for this you pay mucho bucks. If you don't go off road, the Disco really isn't the best car. It works fine on road, but there are better cars for on road that cost less.

Same with BP/W. If you are really going to tech dive, then the BP/W is the way to go, and you should dive it all the time, just as I drive my Disco all the time. However, if you not only aren't going to tech dive, but your dives as mostly hole dives in 40 feet of water, BP/W isn't the best.

If everyone starts using a BP/W, eventually those aspects of the BP/W that tech divers love will change to reflect the new majority user base, which will become more BC like. How do we know this, it's already happened. That's one reason we have BCDs.

I don't own a Zeagler, I have no interest in the company, I've heard many people like them, many do not. Each to his own. But when BP/W users insults non BP/W products it is not any more conducive to good discussion than reversed, and I've seen many people on Scubaboard insult BCDs.

Xanthro

 

[OE2X]

I do have a problem when someone is hypocritical enough to say I'm trashing gear, and I'm selling schlock.

Ok.. But please try to refrain from trying to make your points by making childish attacks on the personality and business of someone you have admitted you have never talked to or dealt with.

Larry,
This is why I preficed my criticisms of the Ranger, by saying that I have not had a relationship with your store. As to the personal attacks - I must not have picked up the tongue in cheek part of your insinuation that (with a few exceptions) anyone who is diving with a hose bungied around them is a just trying to pick up chicks. Sorry - yesterday was a long day and I should know better not make this sort of post late at night.

And there they go, waddling to the waters edge to do a dive in a rock quarry with a max depth of 40 feet... Very cool. Bet they get all the chicks.


I'll admit, if you're into that kinda thing - it's real cool and macho looking to bungie this, backplate that, manly men have cannister lights, get rid of those fins straps - use springs - they don't break.


Now, some of the guys on this board, do have a need for this stuff. There are a bunch of knowledgable tech divers who are doing very deep, wreck penetration at depth, cave, etc. But how many people are just dressing up to look the part?



What seems to be lost here is that I base my criticism of the Ranger on personal experience. I don't recommend or trash gear that I haven't dove. If you ask me about Apeks - I won't have anything to say other than many of my buddies dive with them. I may add that they seem to like them. Ask me about S600's and I'll have something to share from my personal experience. My experience with wings is limited to three. One that is great, one that is satisfactory in warmer water and one that is crap.

My experience with the Ranger was less than satisfactory. I chose to stick it out and dive with it more than once, so my LDS would not take it back. A friend returned his after the first dive to the same store and exchanged it for something more appropriate. What irritates me is that now I have BCD that cost me around $450. that I can barely give away. What also bothers me is when someone discounts my experience because they feel that I'm just preaching the tech gospel and have a herd mentality...

Enough said. Larry - I'll shake your hand any day and look forward to sending some of my business your way.

 

[OE2X]

Same with BP/W. If you are really going to tech dive, then the BP/W is the way to go, and you should dive it all the time, just as I drive my Disco all the time. However, if you not only aren't going to tech dive, but your dives as mostly hole dives in 40 feet of water, BP/W isn't the best.
But when BP/W users insults non BP/W products it is not any more conducive to good discussion than reversed, and I've seen many people on Scubaboard insult BCDs.

Xanthro

I don't tech dive at this point. Still recreational, but I dive a lot. For me and my style of diving a BPW is the best way to go. Through trial and error for me a BPW is what works best. It may also work best for others as well.

My "insults" towards the Ranger are not based without knowledge of the product. From my perspective it is not counterproductive for good discussion to voice an opinion as long the person is familiar with the topic at hand. Sure a herd mentality is wrong and there is no bearing for that. Much of the reason why divers like myself so strongly advise going the BPW route is because we have already been there and done it. Our bank accounts have been diminished by our mistakes. I personally won't encourage a newbie to make those same mistakes that I did. The original poster is diving cold water, much like myself. He will have bouyancy issues, much like myself. Perhaps he can learn from my experience and others who have been there before him, and not throw his money away and make the same mistakes that we have. He opened this thread by asking for opinions. I have given mine. The choice is now his...

 

[kawboy579]

And I welcome your opinion, overexposed; thank you and everyone else for taking the time to respond to my novice questions. Never intended to start a flame here, just test the waters and see what everyone thought. I just dont have enough experience to base any decisions on. Thanks again.