Newbie needs your advice!

[kawboy579]

I like larry's argument for the inflator/reg, but hypothetically, what would be a good octo to use along with the Atomic reg.? Any opinions on using a longer hose for the primary reg?

 

[OE2X]

Gee, it sounds a lot like "I can't be out of money, I still have checks!?!"

Larry knows what he's talking about. You can have all the (scuba)toys in the world, but by simply paying attention to your air gauge; most problems solved. As for the Zeagle that he mentions, it's really well made stuff. They offer a lot of adjustability. Maybe could use a little more stainless in place of plastic, but overall a well made product. Zeagle seems to be a lightning rod of sorts so take some of the negative comments with a grain of salt.

The negative comments come from people like me who were advised to buy Rangers and then after diving with them for a bit discovered that they don't do the job well. Then we opted for something far better. I thought my SP Knighthawk was not so good until I bought my Ranger, then I came to the conclusion that it was far better than the Ranger. Sure, now I dive with a BP&W and have kept the Knighthawk as my backup. Other than being well made and looking cool, I won't advise anyone to buy a Zeagle unless it has a backplate. If it doesn't have one, then it will flop all over the place even when cinched down super tight.

 

[scubatoys]

I don't know. I don't get the "flops all around" comments. Mine is solid as all get out. Maybe yours wasn't adjusted right. Maybe it was the wrong size. I have seen people who get a stock Zeagle, and miss the sizing. The real beauty of the darn BC is the component design. In my last order of a couple hundred brigades (That finally get here in spite of Scott having to dodge hurricanes) - on these I ordered a lot of mixed sizes.

Little big in the middle, but vertically challanged?? No problem. I've got some XL waist panels set up with L, or M shoulders.

Should be in the NBA but only weigh a buck 30, How about a medium with XXL Shoulders??

With the right size, and adjusted right, I've dove the it in everything from bathing suits to dry suits and I've got no complaints.

Now if you're real goal is to get very techie.. Like the guys I see on the weekends at the rock quarry... Twin tanks - Nitrox of course, a pony stuck under each arm, backplate, bladder slightly larger than a 2 man pontoon boat, hoses wrapped around their neck and bungied around their body.

And there they go, waddling to the waters edge to do a dive in a rock quarry with a max depth of 40 feet... Very cool. Bet they get all the chicks.

Ok... maybe I'm a bit harsh here... but the thing is - people on this board ask for opinions... and that is just what they are. Opinions... Not gospel.

That's why I have some problems when they say I'm DIW. Doing it Wrong... Wrong?? One way is right, and all others are wrong?! Hmmmm... compensating for something in my book. Are we sure it's not do it this way, or that??

I'll admit, if you're into that kinda thing - it's real cool and macho looking to bungie this, backplate that, manly men have cannister lights, get rid of those fins straps - use springs - they don't break.

Maybe we should start a poll here... I've got well over 5000 dives. I have gone through, probably about 10 pairs of fins in that time. Always checking out the new stuff. Been using Bio fins for the last 5 years... same pair. Never in my entire diving carreer have I broken a fin strap. Not once. Now don't get me wrong. I've got manta spring straps for sale on my page... but if you ask me... I don't have them on my fins. Never once had them get tangled on anything. Never! So if I use them, is that DIW?? Nothing wrong with springs... I just don't need a fix for something that's not broken.

Now, some of the guys on this board, do have a need for this stuff. There are a bunch of knowledgable tech divers who are doing very deep, wreck penetration at depth, cave, etc. But how many people are just dressing up to look the part?

Come on now... How many folks do you know with a 4 wheel drive pickup truck, lift kit, off-road super swamper tires, electronic winch on the front attached to a grill guard... And the closest they will ever come to off road is driving to the corner gas station that has a gravel parking lot with a big pot hole in it. Same dude owns a backplate, harness setup for twins to dive in a 30 foot rock quarry.

I've used harnesses before, with and without plates. Halycon, OMS, dive rite, Oxycheq. We carry them all. Depending on what you are doing and your needs, any of the systems can be fine. But if you own a backplate... Please don't come out and say the rest of the world is diving junk. There really is no need to say yours is "stiffer" than mine... err... I meant the backplate there..

Some times I tune into our Webcam late at night, when then shop is empty, and the backplates are calling the BC's all kinds of nasty names, and vice versa.

Variety. That's the beauty of life. Some drink Bud, some Corona. Now, can we get the bcs, and harnesses toghether to shake hands, and to try to get along and accept each other.

 

[ae3753]

I don't know. I don't get the "flops all around" comments. Mine is solid as all get out.

I second Larry's comments. While I don't have quite the dive experience as Larry, I never had issues with the Ranger that people mention. It fits exceptionally well, and there is no slop. I have dove it with a variety of tanks, and haven't had any issue. It's very well made.

And if you're looking for a weight integrated BC, the Ranger is absolutely worth considering.

 

[diver_tex78]

Hey Man, I just moved from Texas to Michigan and I was wandering where there are some good dive sites around here. I do agree with everyone else, ditch the Zeagle they are cheaply maid. I loved my Posiedon tech lift very much.

 

[Damselfish]

I tried a Zeagle Concept 2 and "flops all around" was a great description. Not a matter of the tank actually being unstable and I don't think it was a matter of size. Just a feeling about the whole thing and I hated it. I bought a ladyhawk which feels just the opposite to me. What does it for one person just may not for someone else.

 

[kawboy579]

Hey Man, I just moved from Texas to Michigan and I was wandering where there are some good dive sites around here. I do agree with everyone else, ditch the Zeagle they are cheaply maid. I loved my Posiedon tech lift very much.

Do you like to do wreck diving? There are lots of wrecks all around the great lakes, especially up nere Tobermory.

 

[Jersey Chris]

I am going on the other side of the fence on this one guys. I have an Zeagle Tech that is very comfortable and does not flop around. I have no problems diving with it.. Its a great backup to my OMS BP/W set up. The only thing I would change is the Al80 tank. I recommend getting experiece with them because thats the most popular tank used when we are on vacation. For local diving I use a LP98 and really love it. I for one want to take as much weight off me as possible as I dive wet here in Jersey.

Oh by the way Larry.. Corona is much better then Bud :11ztongue :11ztongue

 

[Mike Veitch]

Oh by the way Larry.. Corona is much better then Bud :11ztongue :11ztongue

I agree...

 

[OE2X]

I don't know. I don't get the "flops all around" comments. Mine is solid as all get out. Maybe yours wasn't adjusted right. Maybe it was the wrong size. I have seen people who get a stock Zeagle, and miss the sizing. The real beauty of the darn BC is the component design. In my last order of a couple hundred brigades (That finally get here in spite of Scott having to dodge hurricanes) - on these I ordered a lot of mixed sizes.

Little big in the middle, but vertically challanged?? No problem. I've got some XL waist panels set up with L, or M shoulders.

Should be in the NBA but only weigh a buck 30, How about a medium with XXL Shoulders??

With the right size, and adjusted right, I've dove the it in everything from bathing suits to dry suits and I've got no complaints.

Now if you're real goal is to get very techie.. Like the guys I see on the weekends at the rock quarry... Twin tanks - Nitrox of course, a pony stuck under each arm, backplate, bladder slightly larger than a 2 man pontoon boat, hoses wrapped around their neck and bungied around their body.

And there they go, waddling to the waters edge to do a dive in a rock quarry with a max depth of 40 feet... Very cool. Bet they get all the chicks.

Ok... maybe I'm a bit harsh here... but the thing is - people on this board ask for opinions... and that is just what they are. Opinions... Not gospel.

That's why I have some problems when they say I'm DIW. Doing it Wrong... Wrong?? One way is right, and all others are wrong?! Hmmmm... compensating for something in my book. Are we sure it's not do it this way, or that??

I'll admit, if you're into that kinda thing - it's real cool and macho looking to bungie this, backplate that, manly men have cannister lights, get rid of those fins straps - use springs - they don't break.

Maybe we should start a poll here... I've got well over 5000 dives. I have gone through, probably about 10 pairs of fins in that time. Always checking out the new stuff. Been using Bio fins for the last 5 years... same pair. Never in my entire diving carreer have I broken a fin strap. Not once. Now don't get me wrong. I've got manta spring straps for sale on my page... but if you ask me... I don't have them on my fins. Never once had them get tangled on anything. Never! So if I use them, is that DIW?? Nothing wrong with springs... I just don't need a fix for something that's not broken.

Now, some of the guys on this board, do have a need for this stuff. There are a bunch of knowledgable tech divers who are doing very deep, wreck penetration at depth, cave, etc. But how many people are just dressing up to look the part?

Come on now... How many folks do you know with a 4 wheel drive pickup truck, lift kit, off-road super swamper tires, electronic winch on the front attached to a grill guard... And the closest they will ever come to off road is driving to the corner gas station that has a gravel parking lot with a big pot hole in it. Same dude owns a backplate, harness setup for twins to dive in a 30 foot rock quarry.

I've used harnesses before, with and without plates. Halycon, OMS, dive rite, Oxycheq. We carry them all. Depending on what you are doing and your needs, any of the systems can be fine. But if you own a backplate... Please don't come out and say the rest of the world is diving junk. There really is no need to say yours is "stiffer" than mine... err... I meant the backplate there..

Some times I tune into our Webcam late at night, when then shop is empty, and the backplates are calling the BC's all kinds of nasty names, and vice versa.

Variety. That's the beauty of life. Some drink Bud, some Corona. Now, can we get the bcs, and harnesses toghether to shake hands, and to try to get along and accept each other.

Larry,
Let me prefice the this by saying that I have not had the chance to do business with you, so the comments that I'm about to make are not based on any sort of problems or feedback that I have heard about you or your company.

A tad sensitive here? Makes me wonder what sort of financial relationship you have with Zeagle that is so strong that you talk trash about other types of dive gear and diving styles. Or is it that you can just get away with selling schlock gear to the masses and don't give a wit about getting divers into the right gear in the first place. Remember this sort of attitude works for the one time sale, but does not engender repeat sales. How do I know? From experience in dealing with a few different LDS's here in Seattle. Only one of which I will now use. They are the one that helped me configure gear that I won't have to replace in the near future. This year alone I've dropped over $5 K. I'll be adding to that when all the PST tanks come in that I've ordered. That along with another couple of regs. Sure maybe I'm the rare type of consumer in this market, but in this day and age if someone has a bad experience with a shop then they tell their friends not to go there. Not sure how you run your business, but you seem to like to talk trash about a growing market. Maybe there is no money in catering to the Tech divers. IMHO - to insinuate that reason that anyone who uses a BPW and a long hose is doing so to look cool is childish at best. I have to wonder who is trying to compensate here. Nice to know you have 5,000 dives. Is this your pickup line at the bar?

Now that I've reduced myself to a level that I seldom allow, I will get on the more impotant task at hand. A comparison if you will...

If I were to do two dives back to back - one with the Ranger and one with my (non Halcyon) BP&W. Here are the basic differences I would find between them. My BP is a Koplin 10# with a 6# STA. I use 8#'s on a weight belt. I would keep my set up identical as a constant - PST 130, long hose, bungied secondary, spg, can light on right hip, backup light clipped to the right shoulder D-Ring, dive computer on right wrist, compass on left, DUI CF 200, SP jet fins.
1. With the Ranger my tank wants to turtle me to the right no matter how tight I get the shoulder straps. BPW - very stationary, either in horizontal mode, on either side or supine.
2. With the Ranger I wear 34 # of weight. With the BPW - 24# My bouyancy with the Ranger with 300 psi at 10' was neutral with no descernable air in the wing. The same effect was had with 100 psi in the BPW.
3. With the Ranger I had tank flop. With the BPW - there is no movement on my back!
4. The weight distribution is very even with the backplate and in no way compares to having 20# on my hips. The other 10# was place in each of the tank pockets.

I used my Ranger for no more than 16 dives. Each dive was spent on my right side. I did not have a can light when using the Ranger. I had a light canon that I moved from right to left hand. It still wanted to pivot me. After about 10 dives I decided this sucked, and I went back to my Knighthawk. No flop or turtle. There are were enough things I didn't like about the Knighthawk to make me decide on a BPW. On the first dive I was amazed by its characteristics and have not looked back.

While I may not the experience that you do, I do know what works and what hasn't worked for me. There is absolutely no comparison between a Ranger and the BPW that I use.