Question New to scuba diving, is it a bad instructor?

[Outbound]

I said his actions were unprofessional. He actions were childlike. I don’t see a criminal situation. I expect people to act appropriately and not misuse their authority.

Depending on local laws, fondling or unwanted sexual touching can indeed be a criminal offense. Certainly in the US and Canada it is. Not sure about OP's situation because we don't know on what Caribbean island these incidents took place.

His actions go well beyond "unprofessional." Unprofessional conduct would be things like berating students, yelling at them, demeaning them, etc. Rubbing your genitals against someone's buttocks without their consent is WELL past that.

You are essentially victim blaming. You are saying "Well, OP didn't say or do anything to stop it, so the predator might have gotten the impression it was okay to keep going." BS. This instructor knew full well what he was doing was wrong. But he also knew that the way in which he was doing it - pretending that it was part of a skill to be taught, checking her buoyancy, etc. - could give him some amount of "cover." That is absolutely predatory, with malice of forethought, and smacks of someone who has done this many times before.

I'm sorry, but I will not simply agree to disagree on this point. This was 100% on the instructor.

 

[johndiver999]

Sexual harassment is a crime. It’s not that complicated. If I go on public transportation and grope women or come up and grind against them, I am sexually harassing them whether they subsequently complain about it or not. Now imagine the same thing but the victim is underwater in a hostile environment she is unfamiliar with being taught a ‘skill’ she has no idea is routine or not by an apparent expert in this field.

Yeah she should have stopped him but that’s a lot easier to say in retrospect and changes nothing about the legality of the act.

Groping women in public is different than a women putting on a bathing suit and willingly entering a pool in private session after she has previously been aggressively sexually pursued. Someone might assume implied consent in one situation and certainly not in the other.

 

[johndiver999]

Depending on local laws, fondling or unwanted sexual touching can indeed be a criminal offense. Certainly in the US and Canada it is. Not sure about OP's situation because we don't know on what Caribbean island these incidents took place.

His actions go well beyond "unprofessional." Unprofessional conduct would be things like berating students, yelling at them, demeaning them, etc. Rubbing your genitals against someone's buttocks without their consent is WELL past that.

You are essentially victim blaming. You are saying "Well, OP didn't say or do anything to stop it, so the predator might have gotten the impression it was okay to keep going." BS. This instructor knew full well what he was doing was wrong. But he also knew that the way in which he was doing it - pretending that it was part of a skill to be taught, checking her buoyancy, etc. - could give him some amount of "cover." That is absolutely predatory, with malice of forethought, and smacks of someone who has done this many times before.

I'm sorry, but I will not simply agree to disagree on this point. This was 100% on the instructor.

What does wrong mean in this context?


How in the heck does he “know it was wrong” when the other participant did not know herself? She had to ask other people and research the situation to come to that conclusion after the fact.

 

[Outbound]

Groping women in public is different than a women putting on a bathing suit and willingly entering a pool in private session after she has previously been aggressively sexually pursued. Someone might assume implied consent in one situation and certainly not in the other.

Good grief. It’s 2024. Get with the times.

 

[Youssef]

How in the heck does he “know it was wrong” when the other participant did not know herself?

She is not a certified SCUBA instructor.

Groping women in public is different

…sigh. Okay, how about your GP asks you out for drinks and you politely decline. Later you willingly go to his clinic for a checkup in private complaining of stomach pain and he proceeds to throw out some medical terms you don’t understand, gloves up and starts fondling the jewels or sticking a couple of fingers up where they don’t belong. Implied consent?

 

[uncfnp]

He started to massage my upper body

I am sorry for your experience but as one woman to another, in the future if this happens with anyone not your masseuse or significant other it is inappropriate. One does not need to know the specifics of a course to know this is just wrong.

 

[Still Kicking]

Forget PADI. Call the police. Let them figure it out.

 

[Pressurehead]

The OP said, "His name appears on the forum here." I wonder if he is reading this or even knows he is being discussed here ?

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Note from the mod squad: This thread was temporarily locked, and a few posts were removed that were inconsistent with the Basic Scuba Special Rules. Specifically, Basic Scuba is a friendly, snark-free zone. Off-topic posts and overly harsh criticism are also not allowed.

Several posts are close to the line here but not over it, and the mods have tentatively decided to leave them intact. However: there should be no more personal insults, and posters should respect the OP's decision not to name and blame in this public place. Those of us who wish to continue the discussion on what is or isn't a victim's responsibility in a situation like this should do so in the kindest, most generous way they can moving forward.

The thread is now reopened.

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[Kimela]

There shouldn't have been a Day 2.

 

[runsongas]

There are eerie similarities to another report from several months ago. Are there any scuba oriented investigative journalists that we could reach out to look into this in case they are related and involve the same instructor?