New tanks VIP? Conflicting answers.

[ScubaBunga]

In my vip class my lds did talk about getting in some new tanks that had manufacturing issues that got passed quality checks. Granted these were some foreign cheap tanks, but they did see fold and actual cracks around crown and some that had thread damage. So, rare, but some reason to vip a new tank.

 

[Scared Silly]

The whole vis thing is a bit of a scam in that there is no legal requirement for it and many, if not most, dive shop employees doing the vis have no real training to do so.

Not really a scam but a long history because BITD compressors were not as well maintained as they are today. As such today the likelihood of getting water in a cylinder is much less. However, even today there is still a chance of getting a bad fill.

That said there are not dive shop employees bur also owners not following industry standards when it comes to fills.

The $7 solution: https://www.amazon.com/Scuba-Tank-Visual-Inspection-Sticker/dp/B003JP2YNY

The above is the real scam as that sticker is BS and has no basis in reality. If I saw a sticker such as that I would tell the cylinder owner that I would be draining their cylinder to take a peek inside before doing a fill and would be happy to do a real inspection and put a real sticker on but they will need to pay for the inspection (with a discount in the name of customer service).

First, as I presume you know, the whole VIP thing is industry standard, not DOT regulation.

That said, DR is saying their inspection shows the tank to be ready for valve and fill on the basis of their inspection. LP is saying, "I don't know what might get slipped into the tank before the valve goes on, so I won't put my label on there."

I would agree with the above.

I would go the cheapest route and talk to your LDS. See if they won't give you a free or discounted VIP with a new tank. Maybe they won't, because you didn't buy it from them, but it's worth a try. I know some shops that won't fill a tank that's at zero psi without a VIP, because they don't know how long it's been at zero and potentially moist inside.

Again I would agree. I too would recommend that you talk to your shop and see what they might do in terms of doing the VIP with 10 fills for each cylinder. That might be a compromise given they can not get the cylinders for you, then go the cheapest route.

Finally, regarding a transfil. The really poor person's transfill is to literally hold the values together face to face. Open the empty cylinder, then the one with pressure, then close the "empty" cylinder, then the one with pressure. If you hold the valves tight enough the empty cylinder will get just enough positive pressure to bleed out when opened.

 

[kelemvor]

A tank that has just had a Hydro (e.g. a new tank) has no need for a VIP. That's why you don't need a sticker on a tank that's just out of it's first or second (etc) hydro test. Some shops may insist otherwise out of ignorance. Others may do it maliciously (to get your money).

 

[rsingler]

A tank that has just had a Hydro (e.g. a new tank) has no need for a VIP.

Couldn't disagree more re: a new tank. A new tank may not need a VIP; it may not need a fancy sticker; but it absolutely needs someone to look at it with a practiced eye.
1) did this tank come out of the factory without a flaw (before I put 3,000 pounds PER SQ INCH against the walls!)?
2) did anything crawl or get dropped inside before the valve went on?

A sticker fractionally ups the odds for the poor guy who first fills the tank. After that, the LDS' safety odds get markedly better.

Whether or not they choose to charge for it is a business decision. After all, LDS' just RAKE in the money, don'cha know?

 

[broncobowsher]

Sounds like you are in good standings with the LDS. I would talk to them about it first. I am sure they understand the delivery issues and you want to buy through them but timing and the available dive season means you have to go online to get them in a timely manor.

Considering you have already bought tanks from them in the past and likely a bunch of other gear you are probably a good customer for them. If they can keep you in the water, they can keep selling gear to you. I would just ask them if they would slap the sticker on the tanks with the first fill. You might be stressing out and jumping through hoops for something that could be resolved with a talk with the LDS.

 

[abnfrog]

@RSinger is dead right if you attach a sticker you need to DO THE WORK new tanks have failed .....its rare BUT I HAVE DONE IT.....not many maybe 2 over the years of hundreds if not a thousand passed...if you just slap a sticker on ...you should lose you qualification or have to retake the course ,

 

[Jack Hammer]

A tank that has just had a Hydro (e.g. a new tank) has no need for a VIP. That's why you don't need a sticker on a tank that's just out of it's first or second (etc) hydro test. Some shops may insist otherwise out of ignorance. Others may do it maliciously (to get your money).

Sounds great on paper and the majority of tanks come from hydro or the factory looking great. I've personally seen new tanks and tanks back from hydro that had some kind of schmutz in them. My personal double hp130s just came back a few days ago and need to be tumbled due to no rust inhibitor being used and left out to air dry. These are for banked mixes only and don't need O2 cleaning, that much rust is a no go for any tank. If they hadn't been inspected that wouldn't have been found. (Yes, It has been addressed).

 

[kelemvor]

but it absolutely needs someone to look at it with a practiced eye.

Sure. I mean you look inside with a light just in case it didn't get dried or something like that. Simple stuff. If you feel to double check your hydro facility for much beyond that you might consider switching to a more competent one.

Just to be transparent here. I've never had to use a sticker like that. I'm fortunate to have a great LDS available to me. The guy would never try to stick it to me for a VIP or anything else that I didn't really need. When I got my tanks hydroed for the first time, we had a conversation on the topic of whether it needed a vip sticker or not. He said it didn't but that he'd throw a sticker on it to alleviate my concerns for no charge. So... it's not a problem I've got to deal with, but if it was, I would not hesitate to have a look inside a freshly hydroed tank with my bore light and put a sticker of my own creation on it if things looked good.

 

[rjack321]

The $7 solution: https://www.amazon.com/Scuba-Tank-Visual-Inspection-Sticker/dp/B003JP2YNY

There are a lot of websites that will make you custom stickers for next to nothing. You could design your own on one of those for about $1 and have a sticker from Nathan's dive shop.

It makes no sense to waste extra money getting a VIP on a new tank. Most shops "throw it in" free when you buy a tank from them because there's no real work to do other than operating a handheld hole punch and peeling the back off a sticker.

I dont work at a shop but that sticker is worse than useless. You might as well advertise that nobody competent has handled the tank.

Every shop around here requires a VIP sticker even if its 1 month after the date of manufacture.

 

[rjack321]

I'm trying to pull the trigger on 2 new faber stealth tanks. LDS doesn't have them, their distributor is 2 months out of stock, so I'm looking at leisurepro and diveritein, both say they have them in stock..

LP says the tanks are hydro, by law shipped with the valve separate and it will need a viz before filling.

DR says the tanks are in hydro, shipped with valve separate and VIP on the tank. Put the 2 together and get filled no new viz needed.

LP has them on sale, free shipping. But once I add 2 vip, they are more expensive as they won't ship tanks free.

Any ideas who is right or am I just looking at 2 company policies and the're both right?

LP is not including a VIP sticker - your local shop is to supply that
DR peeks inside and slaps a VIP sticker on the outside but sends the valve separate

Before you are taking either tank for a fill they end up getting a VIP & sticker