New DS Diver, Still Alive

[battles2a5]

I would definitely have it looked at. I don't think Pinnacle pressure tests these suits at the factory. Mine Evo II came w/ a bad zipper. The thing soaked me from head to toe. I ended up returning it and going w/ another suit.

 

[evil_xander]

I would definitely have it looked at. I don't think Pinnacle pressure tests these suits at the factory. Mine Evo II came w/ a bad zipper. The thing soaked me from head to toe. I ended up returning it and going w/ another suit.

Looks to me that they are pretty much overbooked with the orders and are lacking the production facilities to meet the demand. My also had a case of a faulty zipper, at least looked like problems in the future, but I saw this the moment I got it, so I sent it back to the dealer and got a replacement the next day (I was lucky that he had the same size on stock).

I can only say I'm very happy with both the dealer service and the suit so far, a dozen dives later.

I would buy another without thinking too much about it. I will get one of their wetsuits in the late spring, merino lined (the hood is awesome).

 

[PerroneFord]

My God, if I had to wear fifty pounds to dive, I'd quit!

So would I, and the math simply doesn't make any sense at all.

Backplate is negative. Full tank is negative. Shell suit is neutral, Lights and gear are all negative, fins are probably negative. The only thing positive is the diver and the undergarments. A diver (even a pretty buoyant one) in a pair of swimtrunks is nearly neutral and nearly ANYONE should sink with 10 pounds of weight on them and nothing else. So that undergarment is 40 pounds positive?

 

[Blackwood]

Just out of interest, how much weight did you need for a heavy wetsuit configuration, with hood, 7mm suit, etc? (If you have dove that configuration that is).

For my wet setup (7mm +3/2 hooded vest):
12# on belt + stainless steel backplate + bands/manifold/regs/etc. (aluminum doubles).

I just looked at my notes from DUI days. I dove a TLS 350 with a 300g undergarment, and used 22 pounds in fresh water. It felt like the correct amount of weight for those conditions, and I did not have any problems with being underweighted, or holding a stop. however, I know that I kept minimal air in the suit at all times.

That's precisely what was needed to sink me in my completely deflated DUI TLS350 with the 300g bunny suit (no other gear) in fresh water.

 

[dkatchalov]

I would definitely have it looked at. I don't think Pinnacle pressure tests these suits at the factory. Mine Evo II came w/ a bad zipper. The thing soaked me from head to toe. I ended up returning it and going w/ another suit.

Hmm, the thing is the rest of me is dry, the undergarment, etc. Its just the socks!! Are the socks supposed to be waterproof or not?

 

[dkatchalov]

That's precisely what was needed to sink me in my completely deflated DUI TLS350 with the 300g undergarment in fresh water (pool).



For my wet setup (7mm +3/2 hooded vest):
12# on belt + stainless steel backplate + bands/manifold/regs/etc. (aluminum doubles).

Hmm, 22 in fresh water is a lot. I think that I generally need less weight than most ppl given I am tall and lanky. I am goign to try 6kg/13 pounds next weekend and hopefully will stay down!

 

[Blackwood]

Hmm, 22 in fresh water is a lot. I think that I generally need less weight than most ppl given I am tall and lanky. I am goign to try 6kg/13 pounds next weekend and hopefully will stay down!

I don't have a lot of... human generated buoyancy either. In fact, just wearing swim trunks, I can not lie on back and float even with a full breath.

22# total required to sink me+suit. That's the key, though. It was just me in my suit (well, I think I was wearing a mask). I wasn't wearing any other gear.

My buddy had to stack 22# on my chest to sink me in in the pool, so figure 30# total for saltwater (probably a little generous, but what's a couple more pounds?). That's not to say that I need 30 pounds on a belt. Much of that requirement is eaten up by my backplate, by my tanks, the bands, the manifold, the can light, etc. etc..

 

[AUTiger]

One time my DUI TLS350 had a bit of water in the socks. It actually came from the zipper (on my front shoulder) which wasn't quite closed all of the way. I was wearing a 200g thinsulate one-piece, which is covered with an outer nylon layer. The water went down the outside of the jumpsuit and collected in the toes. The jumpsuit wasn't wet at all (beyond normal sweating), but the toes had a good bit of water. It takes a long time to dry those socks out afterwards. Turn the suit inside out.

BTW, I use 30 lbs (24 lbs and a steel tank) for diving salt water with my 200g jumpsuit and 300g booties. I'm 5' 9" and 173 lbs.

David

 

[dave4868]

For your weighting, how much you need depends a lot on the thickness & the loft of the undergarment. In my first drysuit, which had undergarments that were about 200g weight, I was still cold. I could use 30lbs (13.6kg) to get down while in Recreational configuration. On my current drysuit, I wear 650g undergarments (Pinnacles). I now, must wear 50lbs (22.7kg) to get down. As for your wet feet, I'm not sure if you have a leak or not. You might try sealing up the suit, inflating it & using a spray bottle of soapy water to see if there are any leaks.

I agree with you completely that the weighting primarily depends on the thickness and the loft of the undergarment.

My God, if I had to wear fifty pounds to dive, I'd quit!

I don't blame you!

On the other hand, if I couldn't get "toasty" warm by wearing lots of insulation and the necessary weight it requires, I'd quit! Okay, I'd just dive a little less....

So would I, and the math simply doesn't make any sense at all.

Backplate is negative. Full tank is negative. Shell suit is neutral, Lights and gear are all negative, fins are probably negative. The only thing positive is the diver and the undergarments. A diver (even a pretty buoyant one) in a pair of swimtrunks is nearly neutral and nearly ANYONE should sink with 10 pounds of weight on them and nothing else. So that undergarment is 40 pounds positive?

Maybe it doesn't make sense because all the variables aren't readily apparent.

I don't doubt Tammy for a second, since she's said that 50 lbs was what she needed after gradually adjusting the weights.

At the risk of starting the "good divers wear less weight" discussion, I also use large amounts of insulation and lots of weight, especially in the winter. So do my winter diving buddies....at least the ones who are warm like me for extended dives.

A few days ago, I wore my usual winter undergarments in 40-degree saltwater and wore close to the minimum amount of weight needed: 51 lbs of lead.

I actually would've preferred about 2 or 3 more lbs at the end of the dive, since I drained both my HP120 and my al30 and it was hard to vent that last little bit to get neutral. Normally, the al30 stays full and unused.

54 lbs is usually my preferred saltwater winter diving weight.

That might surprise some or draw ridicule....but on that day I was "toasty" warm in the 40-degree water for two long, low-activity dives.

First dive's duration was 2hr 5 minutes.

SI of 1hr 15min. Air temp of 40F.

Then the second dive for 1hr 50min.

I won't go into the various elements of my thermal protection, but it is that buoyant! And it is that warm!

Had great vis, too! Measured 70'!

Hence, the extra-long dives. It was wonderful to be completely warm the whole time while enjoying such magical dive conditions.

Magical for New England, that is!

Dave C

 

[PerroneFord]

I agree with you completely that the weighting primarily depends on the thickness and the loft of the undergarment.

In this we are in perfect agreement. So can you and Tstorm give some insight into what undergarments you're using? The only thing I can compare it to, is the DUI 400g which I wore with the 400g thinsulate booties in a TLS350.

Maybe it doesn't make sense because all the variables aren't readily apparent.

Which variables am I missing? Diver (allot 10 pounds). Gear (negative). Suit (neutral, undergarments (buoyant). What's missing?

I don't doubt Tammy for a second, since she's said that 50 lbs was what she needed after gradually adjusting the weights.

I am not trying to cast doubt at all. I am trying to understand what could possibly cause a diver to need to wear so much weight. A LOSS of that weight underwater would be absolutely catastrophic. I hope it's distributed and not all on a belt.

At the risk of starting the "good divers wear less weight" discussion, I also use large amounts of insulation and lots of weight, especially in the winter. So do my winter diving buddies....at least the ones who are warm like me for extended dives.

This is not about good and bad divers. It's about understanding divers in different environments. So I am asking what is a "large amount of insulation? Are you wearing significantly more than 400g of Thinsulate? In preparing for my dives on the great lakes, I plan to wear that undergarment (or something similar) along with some underarmour and perhaps some long johns. Are you wearing more than that?

A few days ago, I wore my usual winter undergarments in 40-degree saltwater and wore close to the minimum amount of weight needed: 51 lbs of lead.

Help me understand this.

I actually would've preferred about 2 or 3 more lbs at the end of the dive, since I drained both my HP120 and my al30 and it was hard to vent that last little bit to get neutral. Normally, the al30 stays full and unused.

I see you are diving a single steel, and your AL30 would have been neutral to slightly buoyant. My twin 108s would probably give me another 12 pounds over you.

54 lbs is usually my preferred saltwater winter diving weight.

I have no reference for saltwater in my drysuit yet.

That might surprise some or draw ridicule....but on that day I was "toasty" warm in the 40-degree water for two long, low-activity dives.

Not surprising at all. If you dress well, you should be warm.

First dive's duration was 2hr 5 minutes.

SI of 1hr 15min. Air temp of 40F.

Then the second dive for 1hr 50min.

I won't go into the various elements of my thermal protection, but it is that buoyant! And it is that warm!

I think it would shed a lot of light if you DID go into your elements of thernal protection. That's the missing piece of the puzzle.... Don't keep how you're staying warm for 2 hours a secret!