New Diver injured in training...who is responsible?

[doctormike]

The scary thing about reverse blocks is that descents are optional, ascents are mandatory. No problem thumbing a dive on the way down, but with a reverse block you may just have to injure yourself to survive the dive.

I remember this happening to me once with my sinuses. Had a bit of a cold, was able to eventually equalize on the way down, but then couldn't clear on the way up. I surfaced with high pressure trapped in my maxillary sinuses, which was extremely painful. Finally equalized when I was on the dive boat with an explosion of blood and snot into my mask. Gotta say, that felt incredibly good when it happened...!

 

[Steve_C]

Did a DSD in Hawaii. Was my first time on scuba. We had a pool session where I had to stay down by the drain for an extended period. Show I was comfortable etc. Had some never hold your breath training. Then did a shore dive. Ratio was 1-1. There was another diver with us but instructor focused on me. We started very shallow like 5-6 feet and moved out when guide saw I was comfortable. Max depth was 15-20 ft. There was no guide rope. Great experience spent time with some turtles and I was hooked. Sounds totally different in several respects than the OP's wife's experience. Personally I think a DSD at 40ft is not safe. I have a grandson. I would let him do what I did. No way would I let him go to 40 on a DSD. Whether a DSD is safe or not depends on how they are conducted. Picture is of me on my DSD

 

[The Chairman]

I stopped teaching DSDs a few years ago. Want to try Scuba in a pool? Not a problem. If you want me to take to the ocean, then you'll have to pass the pool portion of my class first. Shortcuts just aren't worth it to me. Let's get your buoyancy under control FIRST and make sure you can equalize in the pool. Then, let's move on to deeper dives.

 

[Flutter]

@jamesw71 , So sorry to hear about your wife's injury. Sadly, this is probably a case of "you don't know what you don't know". When I look back at my first dives - how I was weighted (over), how many times I adjusted my bc (air venting mechanism - too many) to correct for this, how slowly my ears cleared on the way down (exceedingly slow - to this day) & all the things I have learned since then to correct/adjust all this - baby steps, taken a dive at a time. Personally, I believe a 1:1 ratio in the early days with a good dive shop/instructor is the way to go, & gradual steps after that. Many things might have contributed to her getting injured - ears that were slow to "clear" or refused to "clear" being one of them - and she perhaps was unaware of what to do, to correct this (stop descending, ascend a little, be patient & wait for her ears to "clear" or - failing that, surface SLOWLY). Diving as a group of new divers doesn't always allow individuals to truly deal with any issue THEY might be experiencing. Her instructor appeared to be aware she was having issues. Under water communication is another obstacle that improves with time. Your wife's ability to do that would be limited. Diving is fabulous, a bad experience during that journey, can be a learning experience, but it's truly unfortunate & sad when the costs are higher than anticipated. (Although, her injury may indeed be temporary). Diving is considered an extreme sport for a reason, occasionally someone gets hurt or worse, and one reason why not everyone does it. I genuinely hope your wife fully recovers. As others have said, get her to a good ENT Dr. When/if she recovers and wants to try diving again, do consider 1:1 ratio with a well rated Certified local dive shop/instructor. She should be willing to do a healthy investment in time, $$, & effort/education (and inform them of her past history); and do read the fine print first. Wish you both the best - good luck.

 

[pconsidine]

She says there were 3 students for the 1 instructor

sorry missed that..

 

[oldschoolto]

I would tell student that you may very well die or get really hurt jumping out of this airplane... There are many things that can happen that no one can help you with and that's just the facts.. So, If you want your money back, No problem... You want to change your mind at the last second before jumping... I'l give you your money back...

But, If you want to have the time of your life and do something truly fantastic... Let's go have FUN....

99% of the students jumped , And never had one die or get messed up... A few broken bones from bad landings... NEVER HAD A STUDENT BLAME ME, For them getting hurt....

Jim...

 

[rmssetc]

Jamesw71 --

While your question is about "responsibility" and legal representation, in my opinion the most important thing at this point is getting competent medical care for your wife, with legal representation a secondary consideration.

I'd suggest having your wife contact DAN and/or the Scubaboard Dive Medicine forum (though this thread has gotten enough interest that the people most likely to give good advice have probably already seen your query, and you could contact individuals via private message rather than a public post).

The diving community here places a high emphasis on standards & procedures and personal responsibility, particularly with an interest in preventing this kind of injury in the future. That may not your biggest concern and much of the conversation here may now be tangential to the needs of you & your wife.

Good luck.

 

[eelnoraa]

I would tell student that you may very well die or get really hurt jumping out of this airplane... There are many things that can happen that no one can help you with and that's just the facts.. So, If you want your money back, No problem... You want to change your mind at the last second before jumping... I'l give you your money back...

But, If you want to have the time of your life and do something truly fantastic... Let's go have FUN....

99% of the students jumped , And never had one die or get messed up... A few broken bones from bad landings... NEVER HAD A STUDENT BLAME ME, For them getting hurt....

Jim...

Well sky diving is very different IMO. Not a expert, but did a few jumps when I was younger. If your students need such a talk, they are all in tandem anyway. They going along for ride only. There nothing they can do to get away from the instructor, I am not even sure if there anything they can do to hurt themselves. The instructor has full control of the suit. By the time they can jump by themselves, they would have jumped enough tandem, know the risk, fold their own suit ...

DSD in 40FT of OW analogy to sky diving is like going to 10,000ft, the instructor prepare the suits, put them on the students, tell them pull as soon as clear of the air plane, then maybe give the talk like the one you described. Then they jump on their own. After 3 students jump off, one instructor follow and hope everyone land safely

 

[eelnoraa]

If there was no pool time, then this is a standards violation.
.

Really!! then I have persoanlly witness this kind of violation multiple time. Once involved my girl friend now my wife. Once involve a group of friends

The wife incident was when we visited Catalina a few years ago. I planned to do some diving, she wanted to tag along. A shop is willing to take her out to the marina park for DSD. Not knowing what I didn't know, I went along. The dive was the instructor, me and GF at that time. Water was cold as usual in CA, quite dark . It was totally not what my wife expected, and she couldn't descent. The instructor did try to force her down by pulling her. AT that point, I had enough and call the dive. Imagine if I was't there.

The friends incident was in Maui, one of those Monokini charter. They run DSD in the crate. Despite my strong disagreement, 4 of my friends joined that DSD. The whole group must have 10+ people. It was a totally unsafe mess.

Both of these cases were without pool section. Land section that describe the gear usage, sure. No mention of any contingency plan or diver lost protocol. Just simple follow the leader. It seemed they do this kind of DSD all the time. Who is and supposed enforce regulation on this??

 

[doctormike]

If there was no pool time, then this is a standards violation.

Does that vary with agency? I had some cousins with me in Bermuda who did a very thorough and (I thought) well done DSD. They did the "pool" portion in the small sound that the resort was on, off the beach, in about 3 feet of water. This wasn't open ocean, basically a salt water lake. Then they took them out on a boat for a reef dive.