New Blacktip setup...

[macado]

I see people say this a lot and I always have this strong urge to make the following observation:

The Travel tube is also neutral (when setup properly). Being "neutral and trim" is NOT an advantage of the Tech over the Travel. Only, in being in trim when stopped.

Right it's just arguing semantics at this point. I said neutral and trim out. My travel tube is also neutral but it goes completely nose up. For me this is not acceptable solution in a cave/overhead environment or even when I use a second blacktip as tow scooter. I want it to trim out when it's stopped or butt clipped.

Most of my cave diving is long straight passages. I don't need the agility or "nimbleness" of the shorter tube body.

Can you still dive caves with the travel tube? Absolutely, sure. I just prefer it to trim out. That's 100% the reason so many people bitched and complained which caused Dive Xtras to reconsider and make a "trimmed" version.

When I stop I want the scooter to stay in position. It's perfectly fine for recreational dives and even most other diving. I honestly don't mind it in Florida Keys/Pompano but I found the travel tube highly annoying when tying in jumps or and for me at least it negates the ability to use as a tow scooter properly.

 

[Wibble]

Only ever used my Blacktip Tech; never tried other scooters as they're so expensive.

Have really enjoyed it. It's been fun working out how to use it too. Get somewhat fed up with this constant "you MUST do a course", which is almost an insult to say you're too thick to work it out yourself with trial and error.

All of my diving's on wrecks in cold tidal water. The scooter's nice as it allows you to have a nose around the whole wreck, then go in for some specific rummaging. The Blacktip Tech seems to be very happy on its own. I tend to clip the nose clip -- a large boltsnap on paracord -- to my RH chest D-ring and it happily sits under me. When in a tighter spot I may hold it in position to my side or under the RH bailout/deco cylinder if I have one.

Did learn to keep an eye on the handle as I lost one by catching it on the lift when jumping off. This new "knob" thing seems to make life easier when jumping off as it's firm enough to stabilise the scooter but flexible enough to move.

 

[macado]

Get somewhat fed up with this constant "you MUST do a course", which is almost an insult to say you're too thick to work it out yourself with trial and error.

DPV courses are useful in the same way that dry suit courses are useful to some people. Some people dive dry suits without ever having taken a course and figured it out on their own. I'm honestly of the opinion most can figure it out by themselves with a few caveats.

The big difference I feel is a DPV can sometimes get people into trouble when it involves longer range scootering or dependency on a DPV if you can't swim back. It becomes less of a toy to play around with and more of a tool.

You can learn proper DPV techniques with an experienced buddy/mentor or take a course. Trial and error works too but sometimes it's helpful to have someone show you rather than try to learn on your own.

A proper DPV course should cover things like tow cord length/adjustments/positioning, battery planning and reserves, gas planning with a DPV, gas sharing with a DPV, towing (multiple techniques here), DPV runaway/failures and entanglement.

I'm sure I missed something. Of course you could always have a subpar DPV course that barely teaches these things but none of that is overly complicated.

 

[stuartv]

Right it's just arguing semantics at this point. I said neutral and trim out.

Right, you said you use the Tech because you prefer it to be neutral and trim out. That statement implies that the Travel is not neutral AND does not trim out.

I don't believe that is just semantics. It is factually incorrect. The Travel is just as neutral as the Tech - which is to say that you can weight either one to be neutral in fresh or in salt water. My Travel was actually much easier to get neutral than was getting my Tech neutral. But, the fact is you can make either one neutral. So, a statement that directly implies that a BT Travel is not neutral is not just "semantics".

I apologize for being pedantic. I feel like I've seen this same statement written in enough places by enough people that it will effectively spread misinformation, if not corrected.

Maybe you meant that statement in the sense of you "prefer it to trim out when it is neutral." That is totally valid. But, the way you wrote it would not necessarily be interpreted that way. As evidenced by myself, to whom it didn't even occur to interpret it that way until just now.

Anyway, my point was not for you. I know that you know what's up with these scooters. My point was for anyone who may come along later and read what you wrote. They should be very clear that the Travel is (or can be) neutral. The only issue, compared to the Tech, is that the Travel won't stay in trim.

 

[Wibble]

Right. DPV courses are useful in the same way that dry suit courses are useful to some people. Some people dive dry suits without ever having taken a course and figured it out on their own. I'm honestly of the opinion most can figure it out by themselves with a few caveats.

The big difference I feel is a DPV can sometimes get people into trouble when it involves longer range scootering or dependency on a DPV if you can't swim back. It becomes less of a toy to play around with and more of a tool.

You can learn proper DPV techniques with an experienced buddy/mentor or take a course. Trial and error works too but sometimes it's helpful to have someone show you rather than try to learn on your own.

A proper DPV course should cover things like tow cord length/adjustments/positioning, battery planning and reserves, gas planning with a DPV, gas sharing with a DPV, towing (multiple techniques here), DPV runaway/failures and entanglement.

I'm sure I missed something. Of course you could always have a subpar DPV course that barely teaches these things but none of that is overly complicated.

Absolutely agree; where scooters are essential you need to be a lot more focussed on planning, etc.

However for my normal diving, wrecks, it's mostly common sense and it's a bit like dragging along another stage. Soon learned that changing depths whilst scootering needs a quick "sort your crap out pitstop" -- dumping from the suit and wing whilst on the trigger can be challenging.

 

[grantctobin]

Right, you said you use the Tech because you prefer it to be neutral and trim out. That statement implies that the Travel is not neutral AND does not trim out.

I don't believe that is just semantics. It is factually incorrect. The Travel is just as neutral as the Tech - which is to say that you can weight either one to be neutral in fresh or in salt water. My Travel was actually much easier to get neutral than was getting my Tech neutral. But, the fact is you can make either one neutral. So, a statement that directly implies that a BT Travel is not neutral is not just "semantics".

I apologize for being pedantic. I feel like I've seen this same statement written in enough places by enough people that it will effectively spread misinformation, if not corrected.

Maybe you meant that statement in the sense of you "prefer it to trim out when it is neutral." That is totally valid. But, the way you wrote it would not necessarily be interpreted that way. As evidenced by myself, to whom it didn't even occur to interpret it that way until just now.

Anyway, my point was not for you. I know that you know what's up with these scooters. My point was for anyone who may come along later and read what you wrote. They should be very clear that the Travel is (or can be) neutral. The only issue, compared to the Tech, is that the Travel won't stay in trim.

Semantics wise I think Macado has it right. The travel is not (trim and neutral), at least in context in English native language speakers or logical arguments. I still find the price DiveX elected to charge for the “fixed” version of the tube preposterous, given they released a product that could not be made concurrently neutral and level, the bare minimum of which is accomplishable by every other non pool toy scooter on the market. Chapeau to all those that encouraged DiveX to make the change or intelligently waited for them to fix it.

 

[inquis]

you said you use the Tech because you prefer it to be neutral and trim out. That statement implies that the Travel is not neutral AND does not trim out.

That implication does not follow for me. With numerous posts that the Travel is neutral, the implication I get is that it merely doesn't trim out.

not (neutral and trim) == (not neutral) or (not trim)

I can see some people being confused, though, if not previously exposed to Boolean logic.

 

[Wibble]

That implication does not follow for me. With numerous posts that the Travel is neutral, the implication I get is that it merely doesn't trim out.

not (neutral and trim) == (not neutral) or (not trim)

I can see some people being confused, though, if not previously exposed to Boolean logic.

I thought it IS neutral but NOT in trim (goes bow up when left alone); as the tow cord is at 6 & 12 o'clock, your hand holds it stable in use.

 

[Boarderguy]

Another compass option that a lot use is the Sea Rover Kayak Compass off Amazon.

Sorry for the revival of this. Is there any chance you know the depth rating for these? Not a tech guy and no plans to surpass 130 in the foreseeable future but don't want to kill the compass when scooting at 110.

 

[macado]

Sorry for the revival of this. Is there any chance you know the depth rating for these? Not a tech guy and no plans to surpass 130 in the foreseeable future but don't want to kill the compass when scooting at 110.

Dont know the actual depth rating but mine has survived 220' quite a few times. They are oil-filled which is not compressible but I dont believe they are rated for any specific depth since they're made for kayaking.

TL;DR - you should be fine at 130' as long as you dont have any large air bubbles inside the compass.