Need help installing Air II

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Then again, you even have to question personal gear. Many people fail to maintain their own gear. I would have to ask the guy if it was the SP AIRII. I doubt he would know the generation. It should not matter as to the manufacturer or generation. Although it is remote, it really is not the best thought out piece of equipment the dive industry has come up with. I used to use one. When it was explained to me by someone with a lot more knowledge than me, it became very clear that it is less than optimal and could potentially be dangerous.

tampascott once bubbled...
Dan, thank you for clarifying. I agree, that is major task loading and a very bad situation to be in. With it being rented, one has to question maintenance. Do you happen to know if that was a Scubapro Air2, and does anyone know if the current models are still first generation?
 
and often do not meet.

That I can come up with 100 ways to have something break doesn't mean that they are likely to happen. All such assertions must be combined with probabilities, or they are meaningless.

(You MIGHT be hit by lightning tomorrow. If you are, it MIGHT kill you. But if I don't mention that the odds are roughly equivalent to winning the Lotto, I'm being pretty dishonest in my evaluation, aren't I?)

The only hard objection to an Air2 that I can come up with is dumping air while using it. If your BC has a dump that can be used in an upright position without removing the mouthpiece, then that objection is gone.

I agree that there is a LEGITIMATE objection if there is no such dump, but that's a function of the BCD, not the Air2.

I recommended against one for a diving friend of mine, but it wasn't due to the Air2 - it was due to the design of her BCD.

One thing is for certain - the Air2 won't be dangling on a 3' hose like a regular octo frequently is.
 
One failure and one bad buddy would more likely be the case.

Once again, don't think it could never happen. It inflator button could easily get depressed. Assuming you have a calm buddy, it probably won't happen. Add a panicked flailing diver, the situation can change quickly.

If you disagree with my position on these things, by all means disagree. I will say that I don't knowingly add to potential problems no matter how remote the problem may be. I try to pick my gear accordingly so as to eliminate potential problems.

Hopefully none of us ever have to experience this situation.


Genesis once bubbled...
During an ascent you need to DUMP air, not add it.

So how does this "stuck" situation arise?

Second, the inflate button on the Air2 is easily "feathered". You quickly learn to add air NICE AND SLOW using it - if it sticks, you have plenty of time to unplug it, unlike many inflators that nearly run away on you when pushed.

You're assuming a double failure scenario here.

If you have one of those, you are probably already dead. Those kinds of failures are nearly impossible to guard against in an effective manner.
 
tampascott once bubbled...
detroit, I thought there must certainly be a lot more to base such a strong opinion on then some theory not based at all on personal experience or fact.

Scuba, that is a good point about the need to hold the dump valve up. The design of my BCD has a second upper valve over the right shoulder, so I could use that while still breathing off my Air2.

detroit, I am not trying to be overly confrontational. You can make fun of my posts, call me a troll (or an idiot, etc.), but when you start making light of an issue that concerns my wife's safety, then we have a real issue.

I never called you an idiot. I was the one called an idiot.

Believe it or not, I'm concerned with everyone's safety, including your wife. If I didn't feel as strongly about this piece of "equipment", I would have dumped this thread a long time ago. Making "light" of it? I dont' think so. Just the opposite.
 
Obviously not.

First, the inflate button is QUITE hard to press. So is the DEFLATE button. I don't think its possible to add air to the BC without COMPRESSING THE DEVICE BETWEEN THE FINGERS - that is, a "stab" or "flail" at the button will do NOTHING.

Second, in an OOA you give the OOA diver YOUR WORKING PRIMARY. YOU have the Air2 in your mouth. Now those controls are right there are your face, with no backing. IF he flails, he might knock it out of your mouth, but that risk is no higher than it is for someone with any other octo, and in fact is probably lower, since the Air2 is smaller than most regs.

I own one Dan. I use it. The "flailing diver" argument is horsefeathers. In fact, in an OOA emergency, the "flailing diver" is MORE likely to cause unintended inflation or deflation with a TRADTIONAL power inflator, since its hanging loose AND is against your body, meaning that he has LEVERAGE to press the buttons! This is NOT true for an Air2 in your mouth - if he hits it hard enough he might dislodge it, but the odds of releasing or adding air are infintestimal.

You say it adds risk.

I say "compared to what?"

Compared to a traditional Octo, I think it DECREASES risk. I believe this because:

1. The inflator is HARD to accidentially activate, unlike many traditional inflators.
2. You KNOW the thing has gas flowing to it, because you use it all the time.
3. You KNOW where it is, at all times. It cannot be flopping around; its on the end of your inflator hose. As such it will not be full of sand or mud when you need it, as a flailing Octo can be.
4. It clears more easily than any traditional regulator. Amazingly so, in fact.
5. The OOA diver gets your WORKING regulator, just as you like with the necklace. This is NOT true for a traditional Octo, where the OOA diver gets an unknown piece of hardware that may or may not work when it needs to, and is detuned besides.

These are REAL advantages, not "possible scenarios". I believe that real advantages trump "possible" failure modes.
 
I have an air 2 on my BC, and I don't like it at all. I like the aspect of having it integrated, but it is really hard to breath from at shallow depths. I would hate to have to breath from it at 100 ft.:eek:
 
Yes I have used one. In fact, I have owned several. BTW, the AIRII is typical placed on hose that is too long. A proper length inflator hose is short an does not dangle. The buttons are harder to push than an AIRII. But then, I doubt you would know that.

Maybe the OOA guy grabs you. Maybe it gets caught in a tight restriction. It is mechanical, therefore it can fail. It has happened before. Slow leaks are actually more common than most would think. If inflators never got stuck or slowly leaked, the disconnect/reconnect skill would never be taught.

It is very apparent that some people will never agree with others and will always try to argue no matter what. Therefore, you win and I quite this stupid thread. You obviously know more about these than anyone else.





Genesis once bubbled...
Obviously not.

First, the inflate button is QUITE hard to press. So is the DEFLATE button. I don't think its possible to add air to the BC without COMPRESSING THE DEVICE BETWEEN THE FINGERS - that is, a "stab" or "flail" at the button will do NOTHING.

Second, in an OOA you give the OOA diver YOUR WORKING PRIMARY. YOU have the Air2 in your mouth. Now those controls are right there are your face, with no backing. IF he flails, he might knock it out of your mouth, but that risk is no higher than it is for someone with any other octo, and in fact is probably lower, since the Air2 is smaller than most regs.

I own one Dan. I use it. The "flailing diver" argument is horsefeathers. In fact, in an OOA emergency, the "flailing diver" is MORE likely to cause unintended inflation or deflation with a TRADTIONAL power inflator, since its hanging loose AND is against your body, meaning that he has LEVERAGE to press the buttons! This is NOT true for an Air2 in your mouth - if he hits it hard enough he might dislodge it, but the odds of releasing or adding air are infintestimal.

You say it adds risk.

I say "compared to what?"

Compared to a traditional Octo, I think it DECREASES risk. I believe this because:

1. The inflator is HARD to accidentially activate, unlike many traditional inflators.
2. You KNOW the thing has gas flowing to it, because you use it all the time.
3. You KNOW where it is, at all times. It cannot be flopping around; its on the end of your inflator hose. As such it will not be full of sand or mud when you need it, as a flailing Octo can be.
4. It clears more easily than any traditional regulator. Amazingly so, in fact.
5. The OOA diver gets your WORKING regulator, just as you like with the necklace. This is NOT true for a traditional Octo, where the OOA diver gets an unknown piece of hardware that may or may not work when it needs to, and is detuned besides.

These are REAL advantages, not "possible scenarios". I believe that real advantages trump "possible" failure modes.
 
Dan Gibson once bubbled...
Let me think. How about a stuck inflator during an OOA ascent on one of these things. If you disconnect, there goes your air supply.

Wow what an incredible streak of bad luck to have an OOA buddy AND have a stuck inflator at the same time.

Let's all put our thinking caps on and see what other wild scenarios we can invent. :jester:

Marc
 
tampascott once bubbled...


detroit, I am not trying to be overly confrontational. You can make fun of my posts, call me a troll (or an idiot, etc.), but when you start making light of an issue that concerns my wife's safety, then we have a real issue.

I have to cocur with DD there as well, The whole point of this arguement is about safety, These comments are not about putting anyone down ( I hope) but comments that are directed at helping others to be safer, Right or wrong.

Bad advice or not, I doubt that anyone here is giving advice with the intent of putting someones life at risk.

Dont forget its all about opinions............:thumb:
 
You can disagree with Genesis if you want, but at least his opinion is based on fact from personal experience. I happen to agree with his opinion, which is also based on personal experience. This whole thread turned "stupid" when people started barking out strong opinions based on a total absense of personal experience. It's like the Chevy-Ford Macho debate, where the Chevy guy talks about what a piece of crap the Ford is, without ever owning or driving one.

Hey, that gives me a great idea. I could make a fortune selling to DIR guys a sticker of the "pee-guy" relieving himself on a diver wearing a vest bcd with Air2.
 

Back
Top Bottom