Naive - Difference between DIR & hogarthian?

[MXGratefulDiver]

I didn't say it was a bad thing. I assumed that most DIR divers wouldn't think much of it. It sounds like something that could put pressure on the bladder and I don't think most DIR divers would sing the praises of something that puts pressure on the bladder. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but then you should call it something else so it doesn't sound so much like an elastic band. Call it a TBP (tough bladder protector) or a BZD (bladder zipper divider) or better yet, don't mention it at all. Less is more in diving, remember? If you make a point of it people are going to start wondering why your wing needs something like this and others don't.....

???????

There aren't any elastic bands on the DSS wing.

I think what Tobin is talking about is the rubberized strip of material that sits between the zipper and the inner bladder. There is absolutely nothing about that piece that anyone in the DIR community should have an issue with, since all it does is prevent wear on the bladder.

Seems like a pretty good idea to me ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Diver0001]

???????

There aren't any elastic bands on the DSS wing.

I think what Tobin is talking about is the rubberized strip of material that sits between the zipper and the inner bladder. There is absolutely nothing about that piece that anyone in the DIR community should have an issue with, since all it does is prevent wear on the bladder.

Seems like a pretty good idea to me ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, I guess I'm not making myself clear....

It doesn't need to *BE* a rubber band.....It *sounds* like a rubber band.

Elastoblahblah *sounds* like "elastic band". That's the first association I had when I read that and that's why I thought "no DIR diver would take this seriously".

The second association I has was "must be like spandex" ..... which only reinforced my thinking. Right or wrong, that's what many people visiting his site will do and that's deadly if he's serious about selling these things to the DIR crowd.

Nobody, except maybe a manufacturing engineer, cares what his zipper protector is made of but it has a very unfortunate sounding name and he's shooting himself in the foot by mentioning it.

R..

 

[IceDiverInCA]

Bob, I guess I'm not making myself clear....

................

Right or wrong, that's what many people visiting his site will do and that's deadly if he's serious about selling these things to the DIR crowd.

.........................

R..

I guess people would just have to Do It Right.

 

[BigboyDan]

Missing the point.

The point is that to a non-DIR diver (who is even aware of) DIR, "Doing it Right", is defined by dive location/envirement, specific diver ability/skills, a certain type of equipment/rig, narrowly seen as Florida cave specialists. The fact that DIR people have exellent specific/general diving skills, and can teach them, is NOT the issue. I dive Hog, always have. I find that the DIR rig, itself, is not "right" for open ocean diving. That's what I dive. So? Makes me think about the overall approach...

Try diving DIR in the open ocean with 8' surface waves and a 1000' feet of water below you. Go ahead.

 

[OE2X]

Missing the point.

The point is that to a non-DIR diver (who is even aware of) DIR, "Doing it Right", is defined by dive location/envirement, specific diver ability/skills, a certain type of equipment/rig, narrowly seen as Florida cave specialists. The fact that DIR people have exellent specific/general diving skills, and can teach them, is NOT the issue. I dive Hog, always have. I find that the DIR rig, itself, is not "right" for open ocean diving. That's what I dive. So? Makes me think about the overall approach...

Try diving DIR in the open ocean with 8' surface waves and a 1000' feet of water below you. Go ahead.

Well OK I did sort of: 4'-6' swell and 600' of oceanunder me. Oh and there was about a 1.5 knot current. Still made our stops. Does that rate. Getting into the boat was a bit sporty, but managable. Sorry BBD. I missed your point.

 

[IceDiverInCA]

Missing the point.

The point is that to a non-DIR diver (who is even aware of) DIR, "Doing it Right", is defined by dive location/envirement, specific diver ability/skills, a certain type of equipment/rig, narrowly seen as Florida cave specialists. The fact that DIR people have exellent specific/general diving skills, and can teach them, is NOT the issue. I dive Hog, always have. I find that the DIR rig, itself, is not "right" for open ocean diving. That's what I dive. So? Makes me think about the overall approach...

Try diving DIR in the open ocean with 8' surface waves and a 1000' feet of water below you. Go ahead.

......... ok......

 

[BigboyDan]

Well OK I did sort of: 4'-6' swell and 600' of oceanunder me. Oh and there was about a 1.5 knot current. Still made our stops. Does that rate. Getting into the boat was a bit sporty, but managable. Sorry BBD. I missed your point.

Of course you missed my point.

Dive DIR 500 times open-ocean, in all kinds of conditions. I can dive non-DIR in a cave and live.


As an add, the BC (very non-DIR) is the best piece of equipment ever perfected for an ocean diver, it's a BC and a lifevest.

 

[OE2X]

Just to add: I don't see any relation between 8', 12' or 20' swell and deep water. Getting into a boat will be tough no matter what you are wearing and no matter how deep the water is.
FYI - up here in our little corner of utopia there are many of us that don't dive caves and only dive open water with our DIR setup. Are you saying we shouldn't? Or don't you have a concept of DIR.
BTW - you might want to check out a GUE video of Andrew Georgitis and crew diving a wreck somewhere in the Mediterranean. It was 400' deep. In my book that sounds like a whole lot of open ocean diving to me.

 

[kalvyn]

Try diving DIR in the open ocean with 8' surface waves and a 1000' feet of water below you. Go ahead.

I did just that when I was in Provo (Turks & Caicos) earlier this month... well except I had 6,000' of water below me. What problems should I have experienced, out of curiosity? I found that getting back on the boat was a bit of a challenge, but I did not seem to be alone in that regard. I'll also admit to losing a Jet fin off the stern dive platform trying to put them on while the boat was rockin', but again I don't think my Pioneer BP/W or long hose had anything to do with that, either.

Scubalaurel: NWGratefulDiver gave a very good answer to your original question, and I must say his Deep Sea Supply backplate is a nice looking piece of gear. I don't think you'd go wrong with it, in my opinion.

Jimmie

 

[OE2X]

Of course you missed my point.

Dive DIR 500 times open-ocean, in all kinds of conditions. I can dive non-DIR in a cave and live.


As an add, the BC (very non-DIR) is the best piece of equipment ever perfected for an ocean diver, it's a BC and a lifevest.

Well lets see. Between myself and four buddies last year we racked up close to 1000 dives combined all in saltwater and in varied conditions. Last time I checked - yesterday - none of had gotten bent or had any issues...

So you don't believe that a wing is a life jacket? You still think that it will roll you over on your face and not let you back up? Not the my buddies or my experience. Fact is with my BPW I have to work on the surface to stay face down to snorkel (no I don't have one - I just used that as a metaphor). Yesterday I did a hundred yard surface swim on my back to get to the drop off. It was a lovely sunny day and when my buddy and I arrived at our descent location we both rested laying face up. I was warm and comfy and nearly fell asleep. A BPW with a steel tank wont roll you face down. This happens when you use a crappy weight integrated BC where all the weight is now forward of your hips.