WaterDawg:
Hey, we just started getting this conversation back on track. Can we please leave this arguement for another thread?
Naive - Difference between DIR & hogarthian?
- Thread starter SoCalAngel
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Hey, we just started getting this conversation back on track. Can we please leave this arguement for another thread?
No... that isn't what I'm saying... and you know it R.Diver0001:
But thank you for giving me the opportunity to reiterate. No matter what your skill level a DIRf will challenge you and provide you with additional direction in skill development. There just isn't enough time to develop those skills in class but you are given a direction to go. With practice you can then get your skill level up to where it needs to be to take a GUE Tech 1 class.
Back on topic... you can bring your Hog outfit to a DIRf and get in set up correctly.
kalvyn
Guest
Nope, it's geek-speek for a no-win situation. You've obviously not seen The Wrath Of Khan recently, have you?cornfed:Is that dutch for "cluster ******"?Diver0001:
Jimmie the Geek
Uncle Pug:No... that isn't what I'm saying... and you know it R.
No matter what your skill level a DIRf will challenge you and provide you with additional direction in skill development. There just isn't enough time to develop those skills in class but you are given a direction to go. With practice you can then get your skill level up to where it needs to be to take a GUE Tech 1 class.
Pug,
Believe it or not, I understand this. But, like Ben and some of the others, I see this training have the opposite effect at times. It *CAN* chase people back on or two steps (which is fine for a little while) and they stay there because the length of the course doesn't allow for the confidence to be built back up. Some people see it the way that you are talking about, and some people get the impression that they should be able to dive like the instructors at these courses in order to earn the right to be in the water without their hand being held. I have seen it happen in the negative.
This training is NOT for everyone. Your mentality (as one of the "good guys") is that these are confidence building skills. They are only that if you take the time to make sure that the student can do them before they get done with the course. Most of the time they can not. I could handle the ego bruising if I took the course, because I know that I am looking at a set system that takes time to learn in gear that I would be making subtle changes to. I have enough experience to take the ego-bruising and know that I can get better. Also, I am not perfect and I am still learning. But, I am confident in the skills that I current have as the baseline minimum for what I do. I want to get better, but much of that is because I had better hang up my drysuit, Dive Rite fins, and my doubles if I quit getting better. My Advanced Nitrox took six months to do. My Normoxic will be on the same order of time.
How about someone with 20-50 dives that thinks that three way air shares with perfect buoyancy are a must for open water diving? I was taught Advanced soldering skills in the Navy. The course took 14 wks. and the final exam was to solder a ckt. board from scratch (schematics provided) to NASA specs. You could fail the final one of two ways, the fastest way was to not have the circuit work and you didn't have a battery to test it at your work station. You had to be confident that you did it correctly BEFORE you took it to the instructor, LOL. The second was to have solder joints that were just not right, the components the wrong distance from the board, the leads bend at the wrong angle (need I go on?)
It was explained to us that the reason for the course was that their were many issues early on in the power plant from bad solder joints done in field repairs on the nuclear instrumentation. Due to space, ours was not a "board replace" environment. It was a component-level solder/de-solder repair to cards. The simple fact was that the instructors knew that you if you could do that in class under controlled conditions, you would likely do half that well in the field with an officer standing over your shoulder and reactor alarms blasting away. But, if you were "overtrained", that "half to eighty percent field repair" would be good enough! Your baseline skills were now higher than if you hadn't taken the advanced course.
That is the way that I see many diving skills judged. The difference is that the DIRf instructors send away someone at the end of the weekend and tell them to come back when you can do it right. My instructor will just say... do it again! Then, he will have you do it on the spot until you can do it correctly.
Diver0001:At least one person got it.
R..
Yeah, but at least one Captain beat it!
I got the reference as well. I am not a huge fan, but I do have that movie on DVD. I don't believe in that type of training either. We see too many "no-win" situations on a smaller scale in real life anyways.
1. GUE plainly states that it's training regimen isn't for everyone. PADI is for *everyone*.
2. Those who would be willing to pay for a full week class are the same ones motivated enough to go work at it on their own after a weekend DIRf and come back to finish if necessary.... which is actually much better. Those who need there hands held are in the wrong place.
3. I know a fellow who cried during his DIRf. But at least he found out that he wasn't cut out to be diving doubles solo as a n00b. The local dive shop didn't tell him that.. they just sold him the stuff.
2. Those who would be willing to pay for a full week class are the same ones motivated enough to go work at it on their own after a weekend DIRf and come back to finish if necessary.... which is actually much better. Those who need there hands held are in the wrong place.
3. I know a fellow who cried during his DIRf. But at least he found out that he wasn't cut out to be diving doubles solo as a n00b. The local dive shop didn't tell him that.. they just sold him the stuff.
It only took me a couple of weeks to get over wanting to commit suicide after taking Fundies.diverbrian:
While I hear what you are saying, it's not as bad as you make out to be. Do the course and then you can have a truly knowledgable perspective.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with a diver who has 20-50 dives under their belt wanting to do three way airshares with perfect buoyancy. Far better than to have them rototillering up the bottom as I see most divers do that have a lot more dives, but no clue about what a frog kick is.
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