BigboyDan
Guest
mo2vation:
You got that right.
Naive - Difference between DIR & hogarthian?
- Thread starter SoCalAngel
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You got that right.
Wow what a way to kill an hour. From a novice I can say that it has really been interesting. I'm fairly middle of the road, I watch CNN and Fox and try to find what little truth there happens to be from both.
To me, one cannot have enough good training. It's probably hard to find out in advance what would be good training for one self until they have tried it. Since I don't see much about dead divers on CNN or Fox I would expect that most divers are at least fairly well trained or at least trained for the recreational level that they desire.
I do believe that most don't practice skills enough, but I can thank that feeling to 20 years of US military service, train, train and train some more.
I'm Padi certified and currently in a TDI course. But this DIR topic has peaked some interest, I will have to look into it to see for myself. It's the only way I can make an honest decision. Can't and won't let anyone talk me into one belief or the other. If I can't touch it, smell it or play with it, then I can't form an opinion of "it". OMG this sounds like a presidential definition doesn't IT.
It does seem as though the original question was hijacked into a religous argument doesn't it??
Please carry on, I will need to kill some more time tomorrow night as well.
To me, one cannot have enough good training. It's probably hard to find out in advance what would be good training for one self until they have tried it. Since I don't see much about dead divers on CNN or Fox I would expect that most divers are at least fairly well trained or at least trained for the recreational level that they desire.
I do believe that most don't practice skills enough, but I can thank that feeling to 20 years of US military service, train, train and train some more.
I'm Padi certified and currently in a TDI course. But this DIR topic has peaked some interest, I will have to look into it to see for myself. It's the only way I can make an honest decision. Can't and won't let anyone talk me into one belief or the other. If I can't touch it, smell it or play with it, then I can't form an opinion of "it". OMG this sounds like a presidential definition doesn't IT.
It does seem as though the original question was hijacked into a religous argument doesn't it??
Please carry on, I will need to kill some more time tomorrow night as well.
Gilless:
You'd be surprised at all the people that bash DIR because they read about it on the web in some scuba forum, they begin to bristle and then fold their arms, hold their breath, and mumble "you can have my split fins and BC when you can pry them from my cold, dead fingers...."
Go to lunch with one of us - we'll buy the beer (OK - maybe not...) Talk to someone who dives DIR. PM any of us. We don't bite. If we suck, move on.
Dive with us. See if there is anything there that makes sense to you, from an equipment standpoint, dive prep, planning, buddy skills, etc. If we suck, move on.
Get the Fundies book - read about team diving, the high regard we place on fitness, diet and exercise, skills development, practice, safety, planning, awareness, the environment - and how all of these are just a thread in the total fabric that is DIR. Take DIR/F. Talk to the DIR/F instructors - I must have had 20 long email conversations with my DIR/F instructor (and several phone calls) before I decided to take it.
If its not for you, cool. If it makes sense, rock on. But don't let an internet forum (ScubaBoard or one of the many wanna-bes) and the blow-hards that post (t)here (myself included, BTW) be the only thing that forms your opinion of what DIR is and who DIR divers are. If we suck, move on.
You said it perfectly, above. You gotta see for yourself.
---
Ken
Ok, I did some reading on their web site. Yea they have the ususal marketing s#$@t, but so does everyone else. (see cnn/fox).
I like the FAQ page that I read. It's all true, physical requirements, bouancy control, and they are blunt about some folks not being cut out for tech diving. Nothing wrong with that, in fact I like blunt, its easy to understand (20 years of military service will do that to you), seems that someone here mentioned a dive shop selling equipment without caring if the diver could (or would) ever use it. Telling someone that they currently lack the skills or fitness for tech diving might actually save them from serious injury. On the other hand, there isn't anything there that a dedicated person who truly had the desire, could not over come.
I have humbled myself several times while diving, I believe that I learn something everytime I shove a reg in my mouth, and I hope it stays that way. The day I feel I know it all, will most likely be my last day.
Not sure I will take the class, but I will read the book. No one will ever say yes to a question that isn't asked, and "no", well it's just a word and shouldn't hurt.
The best advice I ever received was train right, train often, train the same way all the time. Reaction will occur long before the brain attempts to think, if you have to think about it, it's too late.
Cheers
I like the FAQ page that I read. It's all true, physical requirements, bouancy control, and they are blunt about some folks not being cut out for tech diving. Nothing wrong with that, in fact I like blunt, its easy to understand (20 years of military service will do that to you), seems that someone here mentioned a dive shop selling equipment without caring if the diver could (or would) ever use it. Telling someone that they currently lack the skills or fitness for tech diving might actually save them from serious injury. On the other hand, there isn't anything there that a dedicated person who truly had the desire, could not over come.
I have humbled myself several times while diving, I believe that I learn something everytime I shove a reg in my mouth, and I hope it stays that way. The day I feel I know it all, will most likely be my last day.
Not sure I will take the class, but I will read the book. No one will ever say yes to a question that isn't asked, and "no", well it's just a word and shouldn't hurt.
The best advice I ever received was train right, train often, train the same way all the time. Reaction will occur long before the brain attempts to think, if you have to think about it, it's too late.
Cheers
Bob3
Contributor
I'm very partial to the Miller as well, they & DESCO like to use rivets a lot.BigJetDriver69:
My parachute rigger has made several of my harnesses, it's hard to beat the quality & it drives some folks bonkers to see a suicide clip being used on a weight belt, & when they get a look at the dog collars on my 12 lb. ankle weights....
OP
Mo2vation:Another pad? What, your new 7mm isn't enough padding?? Resist.
Your desire to improve your game has been thoughfully considered and is surely well intentioned. There are things you're seeing down there in other divers - control, watermanship, etc. that you believe you'd benefit from.
As Lance Armstrong said - its not the bike. As Ken Rockwell said - its not the camera.
Its not the gear.
Gear does its job when it works, and when it stays out of the way. There are many, many capable divers diving all manner of gear. Seems to me you've already started to separate the gear and the training you're desiring - and you're seeing them reconnect at Hog / DIR. Kinda cool, really.
Just as others have been saying - DIR is more than gear. Its just easy to spot us before we get into the water because of the stuff that's on the deck of the boat. DIR is not about the gear. I don't think you're getting hung up on that. I hope not.
If you want to dive BP/W - rock on. Dive a few, make a choice, pick one up and dive in. If you want to extend your training to the areas you initially spoke of in your first post, rock on... find an excellent instructor, strap on your BP/W and dive in.
However, if you've read Fundies and spent time with some of us DIR types, and believe DIR is for you, rock on...take DIR/F and dive in. I looked around, tried some other stuff, and DIR works for me. If its not your thing, cool. DIR doesn't have the market cornered on excellent, capable divers - you can surely reach your objectives by not being DIR. I just can't share lunch with you anymore....
I suggest you get rock solid in your dive objectives first, then determine the best way to get there - the way that best embraces the things you want to achieve and your dive style. For me, DIR was the way. It may not be for you.
---
Ken
Yes, diving D I R is more than the gear, but the gear is where most people get hung up on. N'est pas?
I am hoping my skills improve...I just wish I didn't have to work at it so hard....
L
OP
OE2X:Hey join the club. The gear is the easy part. Abuse the credit card and you are done. The skills though, well, that's where the fun begins.
Well, a month later, and I have finally dove my BP/W harness. It was awesome! I was waayayyyyyyyy overweighted, though. I miscalulated my weight and didn't subtract enough. At the end of my dive tonight, we sat at 18fsw, as I took off 8 lbs! Yikes!
I definately like the deep sea supply harness. :07: I need to adjust so it sits higher above my hips (I know, it's a woman thing) and isn't so loose that it moves when I'm diving.
I don't think a pad would be so bad, either...
cool_hardware52
Contributor
scubalaurel:Well, a month later, and I have finally dove my BP/W harness. It was awesome! I was waayayyyyyyyy overweighted, though. I miscalulated my weight and didn't subtract enough. At the end of my dive tonight, we sat at 18fsw, as I took off 8 lbs! Yikes!
I definately like the deep sea supply harness. :07: I need to adjust so it sits higher above my hips (I know, it's a woman thing) and isn't so loose that it moves when I'm diving.
I don't think a pad would be so bad, either...
Hi Laurel,
It's great to drop some weight. Likely your previous BC was positive, even with no air in the bladder, so it's not uncommon the be able to remove more than you first thought.
It may take a few dives to get the harness adjustment optomised, but it is worth the effort.
I would recommend a couple dives before you decide if you really need a pad.
Regards,
Tobin
Wijbrandus
Contributor
Laurel,
From what little I know, the plate should be tight enough to your shoulders not to move at all when you are in the water. This makes it a bit tough to get on and off, but is easily done with a partner to hold your tank for you. If you are particularly muscular, you can always do the over the head thing and mount it up solo, but that's not a wise idea on a boat.
I don't know if you have any experienced backplate people around you to help with fitting. I've only got thirty dives, but 26 of them are on my backplate, and I wouldn't ever go back to another option. Having an experienced dive shop help me set the straps properly really made a difference in how it fit and in the comfort. Another thing to consider - if you are short-waisted, you might be better off with a shorter plate.
I'm sure though if you are in contact with Tobin, you are already getting better advice than I can give. I just had to put in my plug for the bp/w design.
From what little I know, the plate should be tight enough to your shoulders not to move at all when you are in the water. This makes it a bit tough to get on and off, but is easily done with a partner to hold your tank for you. If you are particularly muscular, you can always do the over the head thing and mount it up solo, but that's not a wise idea on a boat.
I don't know if you have any experienced backplate people around you to help with fitting. I've only got thirty dives, but 26 of them are on my backplate, and I wouldn't ever go back to another option. Having an experienced dive shop help me set the straps properly really made a difference in how it fit and in the comfort. Another thing to consider - if you are short-waisted, you might be better off with a shorter plate.
I'm sure though if you are in contact with Tobin, you are already getting better advice than I can give. I just had to put in my plug for the bp/w design.
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