NACD Instructor standards violation

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

TDI answered me and stated: We do not have a standing waiver on file for Eagles Nest as an approved open water site for AN/DP.

 

[tursiops]

TDI answered me and stated: We do not have a standing waiver on file for Eagles Nest as an approved open water site for AN/DP.

I'm not sure what this means.
I could possibly read it as meaning, "Not just anyone can teach AN/DP at EN, but we'll provide a waiver to certain people."

 

[bamafan]

Jim I got sent a copy of one of the student's card and it was for their class called Decompression Procedures Diver so they might not have been asked the correct question as I was told it was An / Dp class. Anyway it is being done as the guy is only cavern certified.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Jim I got sent a copy of one of the student's card and it was for their class called Decompression Procedures Diver so they might not have been asked the correct question as I was told it was An / Dp class. Anyway it is being done as the guy is only cavern certified.

Can we get the students to prepare a narrative about the class? Name the class, name the site, name the instructor?

 

[GDI]

The student posted a first hand account along with dive details and the instructor's name. If the NACD doesn't have the self initiative to investigate, that's just as wrong as the instructor in question IMO.

What makes you think the initiative wasn't taken? Again an individual jumping to conclusions lacking information and the knowledge of what is really going on.

The NACD is the preferred target of the day, I get that
People, some, not all, are dis-satisfied with the NACD, I can understand that

Unlike the people who simply wish to complain, who remain as armchair divers yet benefit from the efforts of those who work to effect the well being of the cave community.

People who think it's good conversation to invoke a certain amount of complaining, finding the need to bond with mutual hatred and petty grievances. [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, serif]Siting free speech as a entitlement that allows their complaining[/FONT]

I choose to work to better things instead of complaining of people in positions of responsibility Best not to be envious of their position and complain that I am not responsible for everything they have to do. Rather it is best to get actively involved, then I know I will have a voice

 

[Jack Hammer]

What makes you think the initiative wasn't taken? Again an individual jumping to conclusions lacking information and the knowledge of what is really going on.

The NACD is the preferred target of the day, I get that
People, some, not all, are dis-satisfied with the NACD, I can understand that

Unlike the people who simply wish to complain, who remain as armchair divers yet benefit from the efforts of those who work to effect the well being of the cave community.

People who think it's good conversation to invoke a certain amount of complaining, finding the need to bond with mutual hatred and petty grievances. [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, serif]Siting free speech as a entitlement that allows their complaining[/FONT]

I choose to work to better things instead of complaining of people in positions of responsibility Best not to be envious of their position and complain that I am not responsible for everything they have to do. Rather it is best to get actively involved, then I know I will have a voice

Rick, while I actually respect what you are saying here and agree with your sentiment about doing something instead of complaining, I'd like to point out that you are the one who personally started this sh!tstorm and opened the door for exactly what you are complaining about.

 

[nakatomi]

What makes you think the initiative wasn't taken? Again an individual jumping to conclusions lacking information and the knowledge of what is really going on.

It's currently difficult to verify who is an active NACD instructor and who is not due to the NACD website being down for quite a while.

The NACD is the preferred target of the day, I get that
People, some, not all, are dis-satisfied with the NACD, I can understand that

It's not the NACD that is the problem, there are (or were) some great people involved.

In my opinion the current leadership is making a great effort in dismantling the organization at record speed.

 

[ucfdiver]

What makes you think the initiative wasn't taken? Again an individual jumping to conclusions lacking information and the knowledge of what is really going on.

The NACD is the preferred target of the day, I get that
People, some, not all, are dis-satisfied with the NACD, I can understand that

Unlike the people who simply wish to complain, who remain as armchair divers yet benefit from the efforts of those who work to effect the well being of the cave community.

People who think it's good conversation to invoke a certain amount of complaining, finding the need to bond with mutual hatred and petty grievances. Siting free speech as a entitlement that allows their complaining

I choose to work to better things instead of complaining of people in positions of responsibility Best not to be envious of their position and complain that I am not responsible for everything they have to do. Rather it is best to get actively involved, then I know I will have a voice

Rick,

Your rant is in response to an accusation I didn't make. If you read my statement in context, I was simply stating that "if the nacd doesn't investigate" {...} in response to someone who was asking if I thought the NACD should inveistgate "internet rumors".

 

[karstdvr]

The NACD is the preferred target of the day, I get that
People, some, not all, are dis-satisfied with the NACD, I can understand that

I want to thank you for standing by your word and saying you would be on this forum and responsive. The easy thing is to just let a thread die. I understand how you feel, having been on the same end you are on because I chaired the CDS for 2 years,and having to deal with some contentious issues. I am not sure the NACD is the target of opportunity,but you are the most available,because people are venting frustration at a system that has frustrated you too. I will give a lot of credit to the NACD and CDS, they have people visible to talk to about cave diving issues, where the problems occurring didn't come from these agencies. To the readers, don't stomp on the agencies,but help them do a tough job. Sometimes they are treated like the doormat of cave diving,but they are the go to group, and looked upon for information by the largest owner of caves in Florida. A couple years ago after a bad accident at Eagles Nest that threatened closure,the agencies has representatives there to address the issues to keep the site open-they got applause for this,but sometimes we have short memory spans.

 

[Sylvester Muller]

Karstdvr hit the nail on the head, despite being a Saluki(Go Panthers). People lose sight of the landscape before the Cave Diving Associations existed. First off there were 30-40 fatalities a year, just here in Florida where untrained divers had entered an overhead environment(Cave). The response was to dynamite the spring shut, and or outlaw cave diving in the county. Currently there are still occasional deaths, but they are rare and in almost every situation knew better, were told not to, and had utter disregard for people intervening to keep them safe. The Cave diving associations were granted 501c3 status because no one wanted the liability of training cave divers. The cave diving associations worked together putting in reaper signs, lining cave systems, mapping caves, training divers, setting standards like the golden rules, and getting sites opened and keeping them open. Basically creating, maintaining, and keeping safe the sport of cave diving as we know it today. Do you think preventing 30-40 deaths a year is a worthy cause?

In today's environment we now have for profit certifying agencies starting to certify divers, and some do a decent job, but the Cave Diving associations still set the standard for which training is measured. We even help correct issues in training with some of the for-profits. Some of the items that separate us, much higher standards for students and instructors. Students do more bottom time, and perform more skills, instructors also most be evaluated over time by multiple sponsors before they can become instructors. We are the only agencies with a comprehensive "cave softly" curriculum that has sadly fallen by the waist side with other agencies. We are not the cheapest or the easiest way to get your cave card, nor will we ever be. If you are going to pick your certifying agency by how little dives you have to do or whether it saves you a hundred bucks, then we are not for you. If you want to become, a safe diver that people are going to want to dive with, a diver who is concerned about protecting the cave environment, then we can talk.

Lastly as Karstdvr had eluded to the example of Eagles Nest, just one cave. Eagles nest was explored, mapped, lined, opened, reopened, and kept open by volunteers of Cave Diving associations. Most recently after the father and son perished there on Christmas Day. Volunteers of the Cave Diving associations were called to recover the divers and try to figure out what went wrong. Afterwards meeting with the FWC and hours of work modifying the management plan, all with the goal of keeping it open. So go and dive Eagles Nest and enjoy it, but know that it is only possible because of volunteers from Cave Diving associations.

The picture below is from a meeting with the FWC. Matt Vinzant, Ken Hill, Mike Poucher, Michael Barnette, Rick Murcar, Tom Graeff, and myself.