NACD Instructor standards violation

[karstdvr]

. Now I'm actually curious.

Me too

 

[Hetland]

Looks like the website is down.

 

[Sylvester Muller]

Sometimes doing the right thing is hard. As we move away from good ol' boy politics and into modern practices. You can analyze this many ways. I speculate that this would have been handled differently just five years ago. So I have to give GDI credit for following the rule even though it was tough as hell.

 

[GDI]

This is a dilemma that the agencies have to discuss. I will take it to the NACD Training Committee and get back to you all,

And yes I am still focused on bettering the NACD

The NACD Stance to the question: Does the NACD condone Introduction to cave divers being taken into lower Orange

Grove and Henley's Castle?


The NACD has never condoned training dives to be conducted in lower Orange Grove or


Henley's Castle in Peacock 3 at any course level of training.


The NACD Introduction to Cave Diver Course Standards limits the students to a


maximum depth of 100 feet or 30 meters, one third of a single cylinder or one sixth of


double cylinders and No major restrictions.


Also stated in the NACD Course Standards; If certified at this level students must be


informed they can only dive with a single tank. If an NACD Introduction to cave diver is


diving doubles in the cave environment, he should have an NACD laminated temporary


card that expires after one year from date of issue. The NACD Introduction to cave diver


with this card, diving doubles, is strictly limited to a maximum depth of 100 feet or 30


meters and one sixth of his or her gas supply for penetration.


The NACD recognizes and encourages that the limits placed on the training standards of


a course as the limitations of that certification.


NACD Instructor code of ethics states; Each NACD Instructor shall refrain from


encouraging or recruiting others to dive beyond present limitations of training and


experience.

Statement Issued By NACD Training Committee

 

[ucfdiver]

Ugh, single tank cave diving in 2015?

 

[GDI]

Ugh, single tank cave diving in 2015?

Yes it is still written into the standards. As a point to note, to my knowledge, we have yet to recover a single tank, H valved certified intro to cave diver out of a cave.

Single tank at intro level is the least of concerns

 

[ucfdiver]

Yes it is still written into the standards. As a point to note, to my knowledge, we have yet to recover a single tank, H valved certified intro to cave diver out of a cave.

Single tank at intro level is the least of concerns

No intro diver has died from having a single led primary and no backups yet either. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it's smart.

 

[karstdvr]

The NACD Stance to the question: Does the NACD condone Introduction to cave divers being taken into lower Orange

Grove and Henley's Castle?


The NACD has never condoned training dives to be conducted in lower Orange Grove or


Henley's Castle in Peacock 3 at any course level of training.


The NACD Introduction to Cave Diver Course Standards limits the students to a


maximum depth of 100 feet or 30 meters, one third of a single cylinder or one sixth of


double cylinders and No major restrictions.


Also stated in the NACD Course Standards; If certified at this level students must be


informed they can only dive with a single tank. If an NACD Introduction to cave diver is


diving doubles in the cave environment, he should have an NACD laminated temporary


card that expires after one year from date of issue. The NACD Introduction to cave diver


with this card, diving doubles, is strictly limited to a maximum depth of 100 feet or 30


meters and one sixth of his or her gas supply for penetration.


The NACD recognizes and encourages that the limits placed on the training standards of


a course as the limitations of that certification.


NACD Instructor code of ethics states; Each NACD Instructor shall refrain from


encouraging or recruiting others to dive beyond present limitations of training and


experience.

Statement Issued By NACD Training Committee

Thank you for reply, and appreciate the NACD's stance.

So going back to post 218 +/-, lets say hypothetically you have an intro diver that is IANTD, and the student is being taken into Lower OG/Hendleys for a TDI AN/DP class, would the NACD have a reply/concern for this, or is this another agency's problem?


The reason I ask is your reply is NACD concentric, which was well drafted, and an appropriate stance based on NACD standards etc. But, when I think back to the "Etiquette" thread, there was a concern for the industry of cave diving as a whole, and wanting to lead the way to fix the problems as a whole. That I admire because that is what will lead the NACD and CDS to have survivability in the future, and be a leader in the area of cave diving. I am hoping, and maybe I have misplaced hope, that an organization will step forward and say we don't support the practice of taking an intro diver to Lower OG or Hendleys as part of deep training. The NACD did this once with open water divers being taken to Eagles Nest, so I know a past precedent is there. Thank you.

---------- Post added May 21st, 2015 at 04:29 AM ----------

Yes it is still written into the standards. As a point to note, to my knowledge, we have yet to recover a single tank, H valved certified intro to cave diver out of a cave.

Single tank at intro level is the least of concerns

Rick is correct, the disproportionally higher level of accidents for the Intro level cert didn't occur until there was marketing pressure to allow double tanks. Single tank intro had a very safe record no matter how much people want to hypothesize that having a single tank was unsafe.

 

[kensuf]

There are pro's and con's to intro divers diving a single tank to 1/3rds -vs- doubles to 1/6ths.

One of the biggest concerns that I see is that it may be tempting for some intro divers to dive beyond their limitations if they have doubles on their backs. I think this risk can be ameliorated to some degree in the process of training.

I wonder if anyone has tried to correlate an increase in intro divers in doubles diving beyond their limits and the perceived degradation of instructor training.

 

[cerich]

I feel that real "trick" is to slow the zero to hero" progression that is more common than not these days. That is diver and instructor levels.