My Impression of the Back Inflate vs. Jacket Style vs. BP/Wings Debate

[wch]

Had fun reading the discussion here. I did the comparison route between jacket and back inflation and I personally liked the back inflation. I liked the way it put me horizontal in the water. It does push me face forward, even with very little air in it. (I have steel tanks and 4lbs weight in the rear pockets.) But I just give a little kick and lean back to get in a recliner like position and it is real comfy, but I understand what you are saying the surface characteristics.
I also would like to try a BP/Wing set-up SeaJay. I have only spoken to two divers outside of the board who have used BP/Wings. They were both divemasters at shops that sell them. (This was on trips at two widely different locations.) Both basically said the same thing. They liked the BP/Wing when they used doubles, or did more technical diving, but day in and day out single tank diving they liked conventional BC’s- one had a SP jacket, the other a Zeagle Ranger. I did not even try to rent a BP/Wing set-up, don’t know if they did, because I didn’t want to experiment on trips that cost that much $.
Good luck on your quest to try them all.
Leave the "****" to history,
Bill

 

[rcohn]

SeaJay once babbled...


An Air II inflator/deflator/secondary is a replacement for the standard inflator/deflator hose. Where a standard inflator/deflator hose has a button for inflation and a button for deflation (ie you have to hold the hose up in the air when ascending and push the button) an Air II, or any other air integrated octo that I know of, has these features PLUS a secondary reg built in. In other words, using an Air II (or any other integrated octo) only ADDS to the features on your inflator hose, not detract.

Additionally, the Air II and Air Source (Scubapro's and SeaQuest's air integrated octos, both balanced to breathe well) also have a pull dump. Effectively, you have all the funtionality of the standard inflator/deflator, plus a pull dump, plus your secondary.

ADDITIONALLY, both the Scubapro Classic and the SeaQuest QD Pro (and many other high-end BC's) have ANOTHER valve, identical to your rear dump, on the RIGHT shoulder.

In other words, with a standard BC, you've actually got THREE shoulder dumps... The one at the end of the inflator hose that we all know so well, a pull dump on the left shoulder, and a pull dump on the right shoulder. That's not even mentioning the one or two rear dumps designed to work when you are inverted.

So I believe that having an air integrated octo wouild only AID in an OOA emergency ascent. In fact, if you did get to the surface and suddenly found yourself in the path of an idiot boat driver, nothing would be able to dump air and get you under and out of harm's way faster than one of these BC's.

The air integrated octo does NOT lose features... It keeps them, adds to them, and makes operation of your bouyancy simpler. At least, that's the idea. DIR divers would tell you otherwise, and "old school" divers who don't use bladders at all would tell you that NO BLADDER AT ALL was the simplest design. Again, it's a matter of what works best for you.

SeaJay,

If you have no clue what I'm talking about you really should refrain from commenting.

A Halcyon wing, the wing CCDeep wants to add the Air 2 to, has no shoulder dumps at all. It’s a feature. Air can only be dumped through the inflator hose or the lower rear dump. Standard OOA air sharing ascents are done with both divers vertically oriented, ignoring various assertions that everything must be done horizontally.. If you use an Air 2 and donate your primary, the Air 2 will now be in your mouth with you breathing from it. As you ascend you must dump air to control the ascent. ON A HALCYON WITH AN AIR 2 you must remove the regulator from your mouth to dump as you ascend. This is a very bad idea during a high stress OOA ascent and I would not put an Air 2 on a Halcyon, or any BC that lacks a shoulder dump.

Ralph

 

[Uncle Pug]

JamesK once bubbled...
I would like to give you one hint though, if you don't like the two inch crotch strap, get the 1 inch. I personally find it more comforable.

My guess is that you have never had a Gavin Wedgie...

 

[The Chairman]

when he said...

I am surprised that a moderator hasn't stepped in and deleted a few posts as well as threatened to terminate the poster.

I did just that. Calling others "Nazi" is NOT acceptable. I have edited out all but one instance of that word. If I missed any, please bring them to my attention and I will edit them out as well... OR... you can show some backbone and edit your own posts for "content".

Everyone has a different opinion... that's cool!

Everyone has a right to express that opinion... it would be a boring board if that were not so.

No has the right to threaten others... such name calling is threatening in nature.

When confronted with such a post, PLEASE USE THE "REPORT THIS POST TO A MODERATOR" BUTTON! We cannot be everywhere all of the time. This is YOUR board too, so help us out when you can.

You have been warned... please comply with your TOS (Terms of Service).

Kudos to Uncle Pug for pointing this out in his post.

 

[SeaJay]

10-4, NetDoc. Will do.

Again, my apologies if I offended anyone. I meant no harm in it.

Fun thread otherwise, though.

 

[SeaJay]

Hey metridium... There's a reference to the word in one of your posts... In my quote in the post.

Wanna do us a favor and edit it?

First page, 11th post down... It's in one of my quoted phrases...

Thanks.

 

[CCDeep]

rcohn once bubbled...


As you ascend you must dump air to control the ascent. ON A HALCYON WITH AN AIR 2 you must remove the regulator from your mouth to dump as you ascend. This is a very bad idea during a high stress OOA ascent and I would not put an Air 2 on a Halcyon, or any BC that lacks a shoulder dump.

Ralph

That's a really good point, I forgot about that. I could probably dump by pulling a breath out of the bladder by inhaling with the button down, and then exhaling, but that's slow (and your bladder may harbor stuff you don't want to breathe, except in a real emergency). I could add a whole new hose, with shoulder dump. I could take the whole thing out of my mouth, I'm comfortable with that. Cost benefit again. I'd rather pull an air2 out of my mouth, dump & clear it, than breathe off an inflator, or have no air source at all. Actually, it bothers my wife more than it does me.... ;-)

SeaJay, the air2 fits on a rubber hose. If the diameters are off a bit, I'll stretch the hose or cinch up the cable ties. If it's really off, I'll work something out.

Here's something I don't like about my halcyon bladder: all the cable ties on the inflator are covered with inner tube hose. I don't like that (I can fix it, though). I want to be able to inspect them and rinse them clean. Entanglement hazard? whatever. I'm letting it be for now, in case there is a reason I am missing, but they bug me. I've never needed protection from cable ties before.

 

[JamesK]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

My guess is that you have never had a Gavin Wedgie...

LOL....Nope. I have yet to use a sccoter with the Torque of a Cavin though. My scootering has been limited to Mako's and Tekna's. No wedgie problems. If I ever get a Gavin, the 2 inch might just be the ticket!

 

[Uncle Pug]

CCDeep once bubbled...
in case there is a reason I am missing, but they bug me. I've never needed protection from cable ties before.

Perhaps they are covered to protect you by protecting them...

I will say that Shane did what could only be called a "very aggressive dive" without the wing inflator zip ties being in place at all.... and... by the grace of God... we survived.

I had removed his inflator to repair it and replaced it without replacing the zipties... I told him to do that part himself... he forgot.

It wasn't until we were hanging onto a vertical wall against the current in Deception Pass with full tech gear and wings completely inflated that he remembered.

The missing zipties on the wing inflator is the rest of the story that was not included in the original post...

You can read the story here

 

[CCDeep]

y'all know who Cathy Church is? She's an old time diver, one of the first U/W photogs, she's been doing this a while.

Anyway, hit this link on her site:

http://cathychurch.com/phototips.html

and scroll down to the bottom, to the piece on:

BCs and weights for U/W photographers

This pretty much sounds like what SeaJay said, he liked the jacket.

It also matches my negative experience with my SeaQuest black diamond. The air would roll from the top into one wing, and that wing would flare up and hold a lot of air. There were times when I liked that, though. Once the air was done rolling, I'd be in a very stable position, and I'd figure out how to make it work. Remember, I'm not trying to swim efficiently or keep a cave from silting, I'm trying to become a stable camera platform.

I'd like to point out that Cathy's article is not inconsistent with what I like about my BP, though. The mass of my BP is mostly spread out, so I can roll how I want, and my integrated weight pockets are "high on my kidneys", where Cathy usually has her weights. And my circular wings let air roll pretty well, even if the lift is further away from the body.