My Impression of the Back Inflate vs. Jacket Style vs. BP/Wings Debate

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tombiowami once bubbled...
How did you get to 60' over there without going pretty far into the cave?

Are you talking about the Ginnie cavern itself or the Devil's springs/little devil/eye/ear?


Tommy

Devil's Eye and Ear were pretty shallow... The 60 foot depth was found at Little Devil, not but about 10 feet off the stairs there at the Devil's spring system... That may be an overestimate, though... Online they say it's closer to 50 feet deep, not 60. Felt like 500, though, because of the fact that it was only 4 feet across... So you get this very closed-in feeling that makes you feel like you are waaaay down in the Earth...
 
JamesK once bubbled...
Going into steel doubles like that for the first time can be rather scary. Honestly, I am surprised that Ginnie even rented them out.

Yeah, I agree... I wasn't about to question it, though... It was one heck of an opportunity, and so I took it. :D The water wasn't deep, and there was an instructor (Robbie) who set up the rig for me... So I wasn't all that woried about it. In my mind, it was a terrific opportunity, and I thank Ginnie Springs for it!
 
mddolson once bubbled...
I agree with you completely Seajay.

Uh-oh... LOL!


I've changed to an aluminum backplate, and single tank adapter. I found the system much more stable.
I have some drawings and Scot Koplin has posted his popular wing design, if you want to make your own.
Check the topic "DIY Backplate" on this web board.

Hmmmm... Hey, which brand/design did you choose? And what of this ABS plastic backplate? I like the idea of no worries of corrosion and no more weight than an aluminum backplate... Anyone had any issues with durability?

I like Dive Rite's travel pack... But Halcyon's single tank wings don't require a STA... That's pretty cool. Thoughts?
 
"I wasn't about to question it, though... It was one heck of an opportunity, and so I took it"


The halls of dead divers are filled with such thoughts. Just because someone is an instructor does not defacto give him more common sense than anyone else.

A number of dead cave divers are OW instructors. Especially when there is monetary motivation ala deep air et al, be aware.

Tommy
 
tombiowami once bubbled...
"I wasn't about to question it, though... It was one heck of an opportunity, and so I took it"


The halls of dead divers are filled with such thoughts. Just because someone is an instructor does not defacto give him more common sense than anyone else.

A number of dead cave divers are OW instructors. Especially when there is monetary motivation ala deep air et al, be aware.

Tommy

Agreed. That's why I stayed out of the caves and did not swim with a light in the Devil's Spring System, as per Ginnie's rules. The cave at the main spring is grated off, so they allow OW divers in the cavern, where there is no true overhead.

I got your point, though... Not to dive past my training. And I agree completely. That said, it was still a great opportunity to dive in 20'-30' of water (read: swimmable, with little to no DCS possibility) to test those doubles. It was a great experience... How else could I grow in the sport but to do shallow water tests with the help of experienced minds to help set me up?
 
Oh, fully agree with you there. I just cringe when I hear that line about feeling safe because an instructor said it. I am new to the sport, 1 yr. diving and about 60 some dives. There are some instructors I would not dive with, and some people with less dives than me that I feel safe with.


So how did you like the springs? I am trying to get a couple guys here to go down once it gets colder up here in NC. (no jokes from you Jersey guys :))

I am considering a GUE cave class next spring/summer. Want to hit the "easy" springs a few times over the winter. Love just showing up at the site and knowing you are going to dive and not worry about boat/weather,etc.

Tommy
 
Sea Jay.. Congratulations.. Good to see you have determined what setup best works for you. I had a feeling that if you tried the BP wing setup with a more experienced diver that you wouold see the benefits we have been talking about.
 
tombiowami once bubbled...

So how did you like the springs? I am trying to get a couple guys here to go down once it gets colder up here in NC. (no jokes from you Jersey guys :))

Lol...

The springs... Blue Grotto, Devil's Den, and the Ginnie System... All completely rock.

You can check out specifics at:

http://www.sfdj.com/springs_issue/bgrotto.htm for Blue Grotto

http://www.devilsden.com/ for Devil's Den

and

http://www.ginniespringsoutdoors.com for Ginnie Springs.

All of them are highly recommended. If I could just choose one place to dive, it'd have to be Ginnie... There's simply more to see there, and the dive shop there is top notch. Night diving is available, too. The only bad thing I can think of is the fact that you have to share the water with non-divers... So it's sorta a "social" event... Which has it's advantages and disadvantages. Divers are generally treated with respect by the nondivers though.

Blue Grotto's probably got the best underwater environment of them all. The diving bell, the underwater lighting system, and the very cave-like cavern there is great for OW divers. Unlike Ginnie, there is no real cave there, but if you are just looking to get a good feel for what it's like to cave, Blue Grotto's a pretty awesome place. Only divers are in the water there.

Devil's Den is a small place that's really interesting because it's more than just a hole under the water... It's actually a cavern that you dive in. In other words, you go below the ground, don your gear, and get into the water, rather than jump in a pool-like hole above ground and then dive into a hole in the ground underwater. The catfish are huge, too... It's a great place, especially if there's bad weather around, since it's somewhat protected.

Ginnie tends to stay clearest because the springs flow so much perfectly clear water. The other two can have vis of 200' or more, but often get a little silted up, reducing vis to 50' or so when it gets really busy in the water.

I highly recommend all of the places. The diving is wonderful and inexpensive and really cool. Ginnie's website is the best for information, so I recommend going by that and then adding Blue Grotto and Devil's Den to the itinerary. If you're coming for the diving, you will probably want to hit all of the places on a three or four day trip. Ginnie's site tells you about hours, prices, hotels, and all kinds of information. At that site's recommendation, we stayed at the High Springs Country Inn, which was only $39 a night and very clean and well maintained. It was no four star resort, but was very comfortable and nice and perfect for staying overnight for the diving. I'd recommend it too. "Floyd's" across the street, an old '50's style diner, completely rocked us with great huge gobs of terrific food for rational prices. Service there was top notch, too.

Totally worth the trip.


Sea Jay.. Congratulations.. Good to see you have determined what setup best works for you. I had a feeling that if you tried the BP wing setup with a more experienced diver that you wouold see the benefits we have been talking about.

Yeah, with so many people saying the same thing, I figured I was bound to find SOMETHING that I wasn't doing right... :D The light really came on when I found myself with bad trim in a jacket, something that up to that point I hadn't experienced. When I realized that all BC's are trimmable for pitch underwater, I realized that I could have my cake and eat it too with a BP/Wing setup.

Now it's a matter of finding the right setup... :D
 
Love just showing up at the site and knowing you are going to dive and not worry about boat/weather,etc

Hey that's a quarry! ;)

Seajay - thanks for sharing all the info. Just one suggestion (sorry if it's redundant)... If you haven't picked up the DIR Fundamentals book, it would definitely be worth the read. You mentioned a lot of potential problems (and cures), most of which are addressed in the book with a description. Not that it's the only way, just well thought out and possibly a better way.

As for Halcyon vs. Dive-Rite (Travel Wing), both are nice and streamline. I personally like the Halcyon Pioneer wings. The general elliptical donut shape keeps the air bubble together and more predictable. Not to mention the STA-less design (just have to crank the cam bands down tight... better yet get the SS cam bands for extra security).

Good luck in your search.
Ken
 
Hey, I forgot to mention to everyone... I found someone on another list who DM's in Columbia, about three hours from me... And they've got a BP/Wing setup (for singles) that I can try.

I'm so excited I can't even stand it. Of course, it doesn't make much difference now... I think I've already got my heart set on a FredT "light."
 
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