My descent into and out of madness: GUE Fundamentals, or Instruction vs Evaluation

[KevinNM]

I guess I didn't understand this about GUE Fundamentals: you can take it right out of OW, but you wouldn't expect to "pass"? Do people take it just to better their diving without any real hope of passing, or repeat it until they do? If you were taking it just to improve, and Fundamentals 1 was available, might it make sense to do that and not follow up with 2? Or arrange a few private lessons with a GUE instructor with the understanding that passing isn't on the table but you'll cover at least some of what would be in the course? Not trying to suggest what you should do, just thinking about my own options.

My fundamentals class was with two divers with about 20 dives. They improved dramatically and passed on skills, one needed some additional work with the instructor on the deco stuff. But it was hard for all 3 of us. I had bad habits that needed breaking, though I was more comfortable in the water and had done the primer, which they hadn’t.

I think it’s harder to unlearn bad habits than it is to learn new skills. The video on the first few dives is really revealing of stuff you had no idea you were doing.

 

[KevinNM]

In my opinion, you can't go wrong with any of the FL based GUE instructors.

In Florida I’ve taken classes with Meredith Tanguay, Mark Messersmit, and done some coaching with Kyle Harmon. I think Kathy Dicker was interning in Mark’s class and taught a lot of it. They all are good, but their teaching styles are not the same.

 

[seeker242]

One thing I completely forgot about: the swim test. Darn it. I *have* swam competitively in the past -- a few sprint triathlons. Not that my *times* were competitive, but that I have done swimming of some distance in a competitive environment.

It's not hard. I did a leisurely side stroke and finished in 1/2 the time.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It's not hard. I did a leisurely side stroke and finished in 1/2 the time.

My wife did it entirely in breaststroke, and another woman in our class did it entirely in backstroke. My wife and I had done some pool practice before the course, but the allotted time really is more generous than it sounds.

 

[Zef]

...The perfect example of that was my Peak Performance Buoyancy certification. There was no pre-dive material, no pre-dive instruction, and no post-dive review. We did a dive, I was told I passed, and if I paid my money I'd get the card. So basically I paid $120 or whatever to have a dive buddy on that dive. Actually no, I paid $120 for someone to pass judgement on me. I didn't want judgement: I wanted improvement! But because I was above the minimum standard, I was given no instruction.

So why did you pay the money? Especially when it seems like from your writing that you could have walked away. PPB is not like Nitrox certification where you need the cert to get the gas...PPB is a PADI specific program that is not a requirement anywhere to have that card....of course having good conrol of your buoyancy and trim is important to have, especially in certain diving environments, but a decent operator will evaluate your buoyancy control skills before taking you into an environment that would require good buoyancy control and would probably not take you if you did not have it.

I am not implying that every cave diver has great buoyancy control, but I imagine that somewhere along the path of you picking up your cavern and cave certs that you developed decent kinesthetic awareness and control of your buoyancy. Thats not say the class you signed up for is unnecessary but perhaps compared to the instructors skill set your buoyancy skills approximated or exceeded his? The standard to be qualified to teach a specialty within the PADI system is not all that high.

A lot of the stuff available as specialty instruction are things one can work on on their own when diving with a buddy. For instance there is nothing magical about compass navigation, and there are far more thorough texts than any PADI or SSI manual for how to use a compass. The best advice I have ever heard regarding how someone who lacks experience using compass can improve their underwater navigation skills is for them to play with and become proficient using a compass on land...or you can take a navigation course and find that you pass but still suck at navigating underwater with a compass or natural features.

It is stated often that one should ask questions of/interview potential instructors prior to taking a course with them. While I understand that this is abstract for the novice diver as they don't really know what to ask or how to evaluate the response, that is simply not the case for you with your history of diving and how many recreational and technical certs you state you have accumulated. There is no reason that you are signing up for a diving related course without being aware of the capabilities, limitations, and experience of the instructor....and if you do then you are making a blind investment of your time and money that has the potential, as you have found, to pan out to be crap.

Start using the experience you have to improve your training....either drill drill drill and elevate your skillset through practical experience or use your experience and knowledge to evaluate and choose top notch instructors....

You have not expressed anything that would be the cause for distress, maybe frustration, but not distress...and that frustration, sorry to say, has been to a large degree self-inflicted.

-Z

 

[Diving Dubai]

But really: 275 meters in 14 minutes. More than 2 minutes per 50m. It can't be *that* bad, right? I can backstroke or even sidestroke that fast.

I'm surprised that's the time/distance that's pretty easy

On the PADI DM water skills the 400m swim has a max time of 13 mins - I hate swimming and am pretty poor at it and managed this in 12 minutes. So for you this should be a breeze

 

[KevinNM]

My wife did it entirely in breaststroke, and another woman in our class did it entirely in backstroke. My wife and I had done some pool practice before the course, but the allotted time really is more generous than it sounds.

I did it in breaststroke too. It gets harder in the tech classes.

 

[DavidFL]

I took GUE Fundamentals Part 1 from Meredith in January in High Springs. I had actually made contact with Meredith to ask about a day of private instruction/coaching. Meredith suggested we do a two day semi-private session, achieve the coaching/mentoring time, and while we were at it, use the Fundies Part 1 as a curriculum and guide. I did it in backmounted doubles and in my drysuit, because that's the configuration I wanted coaching in. The class exceeded my expectations, fairly dramatically. In the process, most of the pre-conceived perceptions I had about GUE and DIR were revised in a positive way. I am definitely planning to either take a Fundies Part II class if I can find it, or even repeat all of Fundies after I get a few more months of practice. The only downside to my experience was the other participant had to cancel overnight before the first day because of a very genuine medical emergency, so I didn't really get the team experience. There was an instructor-in-training to fill in but changed the character from two struggling trainees figuring out how to help each other. So, in rough summary: I'm glad I did it; I will follow up with more training from GUE both as a training agency and potentially as a community-of-practice, it was great value for money in my opinion but more importantly the outcome for me is more structure to my current and future diving and I believe a better skill set on which to build. Timing in my diving 'career': much closer to the end than the beginning; I definitely wish I had done it sooner.

 

[tmassey]

I have spoken with instructors who have stated that classes that are mixes of experienced and inexperienced students are their favorite. The experienced diver acts as a point of stability for the team, easing the burden for the whole team a bit; the inexperienced divers force the team to really focus on cooperating as a team: all-experienced teams can stay together much better by individual skills only, rather than actually working as a team.

Team awareness will be a big issue for me. I’ve had 400 or so dives having team awareness beaten out of me by anti-buddies for whom being aware of another diver was considered a negative: ‘I shouldn’t have to be aware of you if you’re a good diver...’. I find my diving style is now more independent divers who check in with each other periodically. I don’t think that gets it done in GUE...

 

[PfcAJ]

I was taking Fundies as part of my first steps towards more rigorous training, tech diving, and GUE. My instructor knew this, suggested that I go for a tech pass. I was nervous, but tried anyway. I wanted to buy my own wing, the instructor insisted that should I borrow a wing that was too big, and then he ridiculed me for all the problems that I was having with a wing that was too big. I wanted to buy a centerline weight, the instructor said it wasn't necessary instead he stuffed a bunch of soft weights between the tanks and backplate. He was filming when the soft weights fell out and I had an uncontrolled ascent to the surface. Back in the classroom he played the tape over and over and over, while he and the other instructors laughed and ridiculed me. Etc., etc., etc.

I have proof that I paid for a custom drysuit from this GUE instructor. He told me that I at the limits of a stock drysuit, and it would be better if I went custom. I have proof from DUI that the GUE instructor ordered a regular stock drysuit for me after charging me for a custom drysuit. That's criminal fraud.

Another GUE course? Why would I want to dive with people like that? I went on to full cave and deco with wonderful instructors who understood my desire for rigorous training.

Mystery instructor.