My buying used steel tank experience.....

[Wookie]

I could have been clearer but to be technically correct the visual inspection program (VIP) is scuba nomenclature and not DOT requalification nomenclature. And thus as scuba nomenclature I was implying the annual visual inspection. And, what folks call a hydro test is really a requalification test which is comprised of a visual inspection and a hydrostatic test. But we are picking nits here.

But back to my point about not having the shop condemn the cylinder based on their VIP views is because once condemned the cylinder is toast. If the cylinder passes the requal but the shop will not pass the VIP for their misguided reasons the OP can at least resell the cylinder or perhaps get their money back from the seller.

I don't think a shop can condemn a cylinder. I think that condemnation is limited to the retester or the owner. If I had a shop condemn a cylinder based on, say, an annual visual inspection, I'd be through the roof mad, and they would replace the cylinder. Most dive shop employees wouldn't know a condemnable flaw if one jumped up and bit them in the buttocks. Not to say all shop employees are poorly educated, but if someone is to take X's to my cylinder, they better do it for a living, not be the weekend and after work guy at the local dive shop.

49CFR180.207 prescribes the procedures for the condemnation of cylinders. They are to be condemned by stamping a series of “X”s over the DOT specification number and the service pressure or by stamping “CONDEMNED” on the cylinder shoulder. Only at the direction of the cylinder owner may the requalifier render the cylinder incapable of holding pressure. Additionally, the cylinder owner must be notified IN WRITING that the cylinder is condemned and may not be filled with a hazardous material.

Cylinders failing hydrostatic retest or visual inspection cannot be returned to their owner without being condemned. However, those facilities that destroy your cylinder neck threads or drill a hole in the sidewall WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION are in violation of the law.

We're both wrong about annual testing of scuba cylinders. In CGA Pub P-5 Paragraph 6.1 the Compressed Gas Association requires all cylinders in SCUBA service to be visually inspected annually. CGA rules are incorporated by reference by DOT.

I got this information from Dale Fox's website page, by the way.

 

[Scared Silly]

Frank, the shop condemnation issue comes up frequently. I have talked with both Mark and Dale about this issue. As an trained visual inspector one can condemn a cylinder. (Especially given that PSI training is recognized by DOT.) The question is whether it is prudent to do so without the owner's permission. Further, is it prudent to do so without a second consult. Mark and Dale empathize that before doing any inspection that the shop should have the cylinder owner sign a waiver thus giving explicit permission to do so. The thing that happens is a customer comes and leaves a cylinder without signing anything and like it in this case the shop sees a liner and automatically condemns it. In all cases (whether via a VIP or Hydro shop) the only thing that should happen is to have the DOT stamps XXX out.

The issue of who is actually doing the inspection is another issue all together. As you note many are not trained properly. Even though I maintain my status I would not condemn someone's cylinder without going over it with the owner. The issue that then comes up is - they gave me permission, I want to condemn it, but they refuse even after seeing it in person. Now what? there is a potential liability if that cylinder goes out the door. What to do I would ask that the owner acknowledge it by signing my report before leaving with it. Fortunately, I am not faced with that as I only inspect my own cylinders.

They other issue is rendering a cylinder unable to hold air. As noted, one had better get permission as that is destroying the cylinder which is someone's property.

And yes the scuba visual inspection is noted via the CGA pubs which are referenced by DOT. The problem is those doing it are making up their own damn rules.

 

[captain]

My understanding is the CGA "recommends" an annual inspection for scuba cylinders. Unless it is a recent change I don't think that recommendation is incorporated in the CFR. If it is in the CFR then it would seem that it would have to be done by a DOT authorized re qualifier.

Dale Fox made a fortune pushing his business but unless the inspectors trained by PSI hold some kind of official authorization from DOT such as a re qualification facility has I am in doubt of some of his claims as to what a PSI inspector is allowed to do unless acting as a representative of an offical Dot re qualifier.

 

[Paladin]

We have several steel 72s hanging around the house, the youngest one was born in 1976. Two of them, from 1964 and 1965, have the reddish-brown epoxy coating in them. Both continue to pass hydro and the LDS I go to has no problem with VIS or filling them. On the other hand, there is another shop in my area that will not fill a 72 regardless of its hydro date or VIS sticker.

 

[Rich Keller]

You LDS is giving you a BS story. I have a steel tank from 1965 that is lined inside and it just passed hydro a few months ago.

 

[Mitchell Teeters]

I guess I'm at their mercy. Even if it were to pass with someone he won't fill it.

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[smorneau]

Why would a shop refuse to fill a steel tank if it passes both hydro and visual inspections. I have never heard of a steel tank exploding. It sounds like the shop wants to sell you some there own gear as well as a good load of BS. I have purchased four Lp72's in the last year all older than me and all are now happily in service.

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[Mitchell Teeters]

When we talked he said that it was a safety issue and he was liable for what happens with it. I'll just cross my fingers.

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[captain]

When we talked he said that it was a safety issue and he was liable for what happens with it. I'll just cross my fingers.

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Sounds more like a knowledge issue, he doesn't have any.

 

[Mitchell Teeters]

Sounds more like a knowledge issue, he doesn't have any.

I sure hope not. I'm certain I'm missing on something since I'm not an expert and I'm trusting him. Every deal etc I've done with him so far has been up front and fair for both parties.