Mr Chattertons Self Reliance Article...

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When someone is panicked, they want the one in your mouth--that's the reality. They'll actually ignore the one you are trying to hand them and go for the one in your mouth.

I disagree.

When someone is panicked, they want the first regulator obviously available to them.

1) If you present them with a donated regulator, they will take it.

2) If your AAS is conspicious and easily obtainable, they will take it.

3) If your AAS is dangling behind you, stuffed in a pocket, or otherwise not immediately obvious... they'll go for what is... the one in your mouth.

If 'reg stealing' is a tendency.... then it is born from an equal tendency for divers to neglect proper AAS placement, situational and buddy awareness.

Hard to logic why someone would 'mug a regulator' in this instance:

0603dir1.jpg

In contrast, these photos depict why someone might 'mug a regulator:

(PADI official image from their Twitter...showing AAS obstructed by BCD strap)
PADI-SM.jpg
(below image is actually from a 'Master Scuba Diver' advert!!! LMAO)
PADI-Master-Scuba-Diver.jpg
(can barely make out the AAS on either diver...)
learning-to-scuba-dive-together.jpg
(and this is just asking for mugging...)
padi_discover_scuba_diving_bali.gif
 
In most cases (if not all), the OOA diver will go for whichever reg they have locked on with their (likely) tunnel vision. A properly presented secondary reg may not be "noticed" by an OOA diver if they have already locked on the one in the other diver's mouth. If the presenting diver can get them to see the offered reg early enough and if the OOA diver is mentally capable of understanding what is being presented, then I believe it is safe to say most diver will take it and forget about the reg in the other diver's mouth. Panic has a way of causing rational people to act irrationally though so there is no guarantee that the OOA diver would comprehend what they were seeing.
 
that's not always true in my experience


fortunately, I have no experience with an OOA diver needing a reg from me (other than drills), and no experience with a panicked diver. However, what Andy says, makes sense to me when imagining the situation.

What is your experience to the contrary?
 
fortunately, I have no experience with an OOA diver needing a reg from me (other than drills), and no experience with a panicked diver. However, what Andy says, makes sense to me when imagining the situation.

What is your experience to the contrary?
a panicked diver refusing my regulator.
 
this diver had already mugged someone else and was dragging them both out of the cavern with the 'donor' unable to grab his own octo.
neither took my reg and they both survived with their lungs intact. so that was good.
 
this diver had already mugged someone else and was dragging them both out of the cavern with the 'donor' unable to grab his own octo.
neither took my reg and they both survived with their lungs intact. so that was good.

I think one thing is apparent to me now after thinking about it for a while. Although what Andy says sounds logical, actions in a panic situation will rarely be logical or predictable. Perhaps this is the point you were trying to make, and I am just finally getting it :)
 
It is beginning to look like a big part of this ARGUMENT, was caused by errors in semantics...the meaning of words used in the thread, that each of us inferred in different ways.

When Chatterton was talking about having his reg mugged, by some diver that was not his buddy ( by definition given his dives on the sub and Doria were solo dives), he was talking about not getting into a air share with unsafe divers that should not be coming up to him.

When he was pressed about whether he would share with his teenage son(if he had one), or a friend close to family--the issue alters--he would save their life.


On the other side of the semantics universe, we have our South Florida DIR ideas for tech diving....we dive off a boat that is basically just us and team mates, or divers we know so well they can be inserted like team members---AND, each carries not only sufficient gas for themselves, but enough to be redundant for a buddy--a huge amount of extra gas. Also, we have a Rule which we can not break on a tech dive, that we DON'T DIVE WITH UNSAFE DIVERS.

All of a sudden, looking at it this way, there actually is quite a bit of agreement between the two "opposite" positions..... Chatterton is demanding that all the solo divers that do not carry enough gas for themselves in an emergency, become self sufficient with much more gas and have better proceedures and skills and better planning.....This dovetails well into GUE thinking, that each buddy has all the gas that they need, and all the gas the buddy needs....and that each will have practiced all skills and planned the dive so well, that any emergency would seem to be nearly impossible( each member of the buddy team is totally self sufficient).

Where Chatterton states that his gas is his gas, and he would fight off a reg mugger---our DIR position is that we can't be in the water, with the guys that Chatterton is suggesting may need to be fought off. We( DIR/GUE) won't give the reg to the unsafe diver, because we will never be diving with this person near us on a tech dive. Chatterton will not donate to the unsafe, but may need aggressive techniques, because the dangerous divers may be on the dive with him.
 
I see... so any back-mounted OC diver could just waltz onto an RB80 without an increase of equipment loaded stress?

I'm suspicious of that claim.......

Being able to switch between OC and SCR/CCR or between doubles and sidemount and not be beholden to the "emergency" techniques of the wrong gear seems to be what you have issue with. I don't believe it. Good divers make anything look natural and just don't seem to have "emergencies" where split second muscle memory reactions are life and death anyway. Any problems they encounter are methodically addressed without drama - so unlike the steely metal fortitude the article claims the big tough tech diver needs.

Anyone who is wondering what the topic of this thread is should refer to the title. The last 100 posts or so would not give you a clue. I am disappointed this turned into yet another GUE/DIR thread.

Meh they all do. John C's article was just a momentary attempt to steal some attention from the center of the known universe. :wink:

a panicked diver refusing my regulator.
There are multiple reports of CCR divers refusing bailout regs offered to them. Seems to be de rigueur.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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