Mr Chattertons Self Reliance Article...

[danvolker]

Dan,

When John was diving the Doria... there was no GUE. LOL

The guys on the boat last week... not GUE either... I was there

If Chatterton had written this article in 1990, you would be spot on right.
Since he just wrote this now, it is directly contradicting the core concepts of DIR and GUE right now. If the guys he saw on the boat were using the common sense ideas of DIR. in that they were buddy diving, and planning the air share contingency with a long hose, and sufficient gas available to share--and then chose to ridicule this, that is an assault on common sense DIR ideas.
Would you really expect his scorn of basic DIR ideas in a new article, to be left unanswered? This is Scubaboard, where if someone says something another disagrees with, a "discussion" ensues..... You might call this a "Discussion board"

 

[HowardE]

If Chatterton had written this article in 1990, you would be spot on right.
Since he just wrote this now, it is directly contradicting the core concepts of DIR and GUE right now. If the guys he saw on the boat were using the common sense ideas of DIR. in that they were buddy diving, and planning the air share contingency with a long hose, and sufficient gas available to share--and then chose to ridicule this, that is an assault on common sense DIR ideas.
Would you really expect his scorn of basic DIR ideas in a new article, to be left unanswered? This is Scubaboard, where if someone says something another disagrees with, a "discussion" ensues..... You might call this a "Discussion board"

This is not a discussion Dan. In a discussion, the other side listens. With you, it's called something else entirely, maybe something that starts with "circle"

Viva La Revolucion!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Legends and egos aside, I view these dives with the same level of respect that I typically reserve for internet videos that start out with "Hey! Watch this." Which is to say "not much"

For other dives, I reserve the right to choose either the buddy or the dive. I'll happily dive with someone who has the buoyancy control of a $2 bathtub toy, but we're going somewhere shallow, quiet and safe. If the dive is anyplace where a mistake ends with "and then he died," I'm only doing it with a buddy I've trained with and trust.

flots.

It always boils down to choice. Sometime back I created a flow chart to describe this concept to my students. It works for pretty much any dive you'd want to do ... whether a shallow reef dive or a deep wreck penetration. How you deal with a problem depends on the contingencies you planned for. The outcome of the problem depends on how you chose to answer the questions ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Legends and egos aside, I view these dives with the same level of respect that I typically reserve for internet videos that start out with "Hey! Watch this." Which is to say "not much"

For other dives, I reserve the right to choose either the buddy or the dive. I'll happily dive with someone who has the buoyancy control of a $2 bathtub toy, but we're going somewhere shallow, quiet and safe. If the dive is anyplace where a mistake ends with "and then he died," I'm only doing it with a buddy I've trained with and trust.

flots.

I have a ton of respect for the solo penetration dive with no line on deep wrecks on air. It is something that I will never do. Even if i sought out training, I know my personal weaknesses would never allow me to do a dive like that. I have a ton of respect for cowboys that strap their hand down over the neck of a bull and try to hang on for a few seconds as well. Dangerous, stupid, sporting....?? maybe, but I love to watch the videos and hate to see people get hurt.

 

[boulderjohn]

If Chatterton had written this article in 1990, you would be spot on right.
Since he just wrote this now, it is directly contradicting the core concepts of DIR and GUE right now. If the guys he saw on the boat were using the common sense ideas of DIR. in that they were buddy diving, and planning the air share contingency with a long hose, and sufficient gas available to share--and then chose to ridicule this, that is an assault on common sense DIR ideas.
Would you really expect his scorn of basic DIR ideas in a new article, to be left unanswered? This is Scubaboard, where if someone says something another disagrees with, a "discussion" ensues..... You might call this a "Discussion board"

As I wrote in the other thread, I have no GUE training. I have training in 3 different tech agencies. I have observed instructors from 4 other agencies. All teach roughly the same concepts in terms of gas planning. GUE did not invent this kind of gas planning, and it is not the only agency that teaches it.

This is not about GUE, and it is not about DIR. The solopsism that insists that it is will not be productive.

 

[danvolker]

Here is a tangent

Chatterton wanting to be seen as a modern day Rambo, running solo through a field of a hundred enemy soldiers, firing wildly with a maching gun in each hand....

Then the GUE approach, More like Seal Team 6.... They plan, they support each other....They inflict the damage required in the mission....they leave and enjoy a high survival rate.

The diving question would be: Is Rambo the better role model for a tech diver, or Seal Team 6 ?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Here is a tangent

Chatterton wanting to be seen as a modern day Rambo, running solo through a field of a hundred enemy soldiers, firing wildly with a maching gun in each hand....

Then the GUE approach, More like Seal Team 6.... They plan, they support each other....They inflict the damage required in the mission....they leave and enjoy a high survival rate.

The diving question would be is Rambo the better role model for a tech diver, or Seal Team 6 ?

I sure hope neither is sing magazines that have more than 7 rounds.

 

[flots am]

It always boils down to choice. Sometime back I created a flow chart to describe this concept to my students. It works for pretty much any dive you'd want to do .

Mind if I steal your diagram for class?

flots.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Here is a tangent

Chatterton wanting to be seen as a modern day Rambo, running solo through a field of a hundred enemy soldiers, firing wildly with a maching gun in each hand....

Then the GUE approach, More like Seal Team 6.... They plan, they support each other....They inflict the damage required in the mission....they leave and enjoy a high survival rate.

The diving question would be: Is Rambo the better role model for a tech diver, or Seal Team 6 ?

This is, hands down, the dumbest post I've ever read on scubaboard. Nothing your opponent has posted suggests "Rambo" and nothing about any GUE dive teams I've ever seen or heard of (despite my respect for their dedication to skills and gear configuration) would entitle them to be compared to a SEAL team.

If there were a medal for such things, I would award it now.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Here is a tangent

Chatterton wanting to be seen as a modern day Rambo, running solo through a field of a hundred enemy soldiers, firing wildly with a maching gun in each hand....

Then the GUE approach, More like Seal Team 6.... They plan, they support each other....They inflict the damage required in the mission....they leave and enjoy a high survival rate.

The diving question would be: Is Rambo the better role model for a tech diver, or Seal Team 6 ?

I've met Chatterton ... had dinner with him and a few other folks a couple years back. He didn't impress me as Rambo ... and I don't see him in any way suggesting that.

His style and philosophy are at odds with yours. Therefore the choices he makes are going to be different than yours. They're going to be different than mine as well. But as long as he's not promoting this approach to new divers, I don't have a problem with him making those choices.

And I agree with Boulderjohn ... this isn't a choice between Rambo and Seal Team Six ... GUE isn't the latter either.

There are many ways to dive. There are major overlaps between some of those ways ... and some are so at odds as to be impossible to find a common ground. You and Chatterton happen to be on opposite sides of the spectrum of choices. Lots of us in this discussion happen to be somewhere in the middle. I don't see either as the "pinnacle" to which some new diver should aspire. Rather, it'd be better to understand the rationale behind those choices and leave it up to the individual to make their own.

Mine would not strictly follow either yours or his ... for reasons that are uniquely mine.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added February 15th, 2013 at 09:35 AM ----------

Mind if I steal your diagram for class?

flots.

Be my guest ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)