Missing Zip-Tie = drowning?

[E.C.Hansen]

Seems to me that this is exactly the situation that calls for a CESA. Controlled Emergency Swimming Assent = safety for most recreational divers right? I'm a pretty new diver and want to have these things straight in my head.
But given that most recreational diving is in no-decomp conditions, there shouldn't be a great danger from CESA, right? When recovering (or trying to)from a coughing fit underwater, it could be hard to capture a free floating reg. If a quick arm sweep or grab at the alternate doesn't get me a breather, I would probably mentally declare an emergency and CESA seems the next safe step.

Of course this doesn't hold for advanced tech diving, but that's a whole 'nother level or training and risk. Hopefully part of responsible recreational diving is staying within limits that make getting bent unlikely, and allow our training (I was trained to do a CESA in my basic OW class) and practice to keep us safe.

Eric

 

[Thalassamania]

Seems to me that this is exactly the situation that calls for a CESA. Controlled Emergency Swimming Assent = safety for most recreational divers right? I'm a pretty new diver and want to have these things straight in my head.

A CESA is the right idea, but if you're having a coughing fit it might not be the best approach.

But given that most recreational diving is in no-decomp conditions, there shouldn't be a great danger from CESA, right?

Right

When recovering (or trying to)from a coughing fit underwater, it could be hard to capture a free floating reg. In that video it was almost directly over that divers head. If a quick arm sweep or grab at the alternate doesn't get me a breather, I would probably mentally declare an emergency and CESA seems the next safe step.

Many divers are taught a shoulder drop and/or arm sweep method for recovering their regulator. As you can see from the video, that may not work. The idea of an emergency procedure that you can not count in is a strange one to me. I teach: Left hand goes under the tank and lifts, right hand reaches over the top to the regulator first stage, encircles the IP hose and then pulls outward and slides down the hose. Now the second stage is in your hand and you're reay to go. I've watched too many divers flail, and fail, and flail again, doing armsweep after paniced armsweep.

 

[bygolly]

Many divers are taught a shoulder drop and/or arm sweep method for recovering their regulator. As you can see from the video, that may not work. The idea of an emergency procedure that you can not count in is a strange one to me. I teach: Left hand goes under the tank and lifts, right hand reaches over the top to the regulator first stage, encircles the IP hose and then pulls outward and slides down the hose. Now the second stage is in your hand and you're reay to go. I've watched too many divers flail, and fail, and flail again, doing armsweep after paniced armsweep.

I'm with you on that Thal. Whenever I practiced the armsweep I found I was only successful in the reg recovery about 75% of the time. Certain body postures and current conditions can put that reg in places the arm sweep will not get to. I keep my tank high enough so that I will lightly bump the first stage with my head when I crane my neck. A light lift with the left hand and a reach back with the right always works for me. Luckily this high tank position helps to keep my trim just right as well.

 

[Gombessa]

Without turning this into a "bungeed backup" debate, I've found that one very good system to prevent any kind of panicked flailing or repeated arm sweeps is upon losing the primary reg is to have the backup in a reliable, instantly accessible location (which typically is not just "secured within the triangle") which you automatically switch to.

The instant you lose your reg or breathe in water, the first thing you do is switch to your backup. Once you've done so, you're free at your leisure to perform an arm sweep or whatever is necessary to recover the lost reg (which for a long-hose, may simply be to reach back, touch your neck, and follow the hose down).

 

[E.C.Hansen]

Good points, I was taught the arm sweep, but I think on my next few dives I'm going to work on some panic drills (as in how not to) and try to get used to swapping and retrieving wayward regulators.

Thanks
Eric

 

[Thalassamania]

Without turning this into a "bungeed backup" debate, I've found that one very good system to prevent any kind of panicked flailing or repeated arm sweeps is upon losing the primary reg is to have the backup in a reliable, instantly accessible location (which typically is not just "secured within the triangle") which you automatically switch to.

The instant you lose your reg or breathe in water, the first thing you do is switch to your backup. Once you've done so, you're free at your leisure to perform an arm sweep or whatever is necessary to recover the lost reg (which for a long-hose, may simply be to reach back, touch your neck, and follow the hose down).

You know you're right; as I think about it, my approach, while it works well, is grounded in the days before auxiliaries.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You know you're right; as I think about it, my approach, while it works well, is grounded in the days before auxiliaries.

Yeah, I can do all that arm sweeping stuff a lot easier when I'm breathing off my safe second. If a problem develops with the primary, I will instinctively stuff the pony bottle reg (hanging from the necklace) into my mouth. (At least I hope I will)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Seems to me that this is exactly the situation that calls for a CESA. Controlled Emergency Swimming Assent = safety for most recreational divers right? I'm a pretty new diver and want to have these things straight in my head.
But given that most recreational diving is in no-decomp conditions, there shouldn't be a great danger from CESA, right? When recovering (or trying to)from a coughing fit underwater, it could be hard to capture a free floating reg. If a quick arm sweep or grab at the alternate doesn't get me a breather, I would probably mentally declare an emergency and CESA seems the next safe step.

Of course this doesn't hold for advanced tech diving, but that's a whole 'nother level or training and risk. Hopefully part of responsible recreational diving is staying within limits that make getting bent unlikely, and allow our training (I was trained to do a CESA in my basic OW class) and practice to keep us safe.

Eric

No loosing a mouthpiece SHOULD result in the diver immediately going to their secondary (octopus). THEN finding the problem reg and try to figure out what to do about the problem.

The CESA is a panic response in a case like this and is entirely inappropriate, but it is foreseeable for this to occur when a diver is choking and freaking out.

 

[E.C.Hansen]

Its hard to equate my training with panic, if CESA was panic wouldn't it be PESA or Paniced Emergency yadda yadda? There's a difference between CESA and uncontrolled assent, right? remember we're not talking about trained tech divers spitting out a reg, we're talking about average joe with a mouthfull of salt water and demanding gag reflex. Maybe not the best first reaction, but certainly on the list.

 

[Thalassamania]

CESA = Controled Emergency Swimming Ascent, it does not equal panic.