Missing Zip-Tie = drowning?

[eliminator]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but if you're going to go with a different color zip tie such as red, dont get them from a dollar store. Go to a hardware store and get good quality ones like those used by electricians.

 

[Steve in Seattle]

Mentioned, and re-noted.

plastic/regular < nylon < nylon w/SS tabs < SS w/poly/nylon coating

 

[annlaur]

Its hard to equate my training with panic, if CESA was panic wouldn't it be PESA or Paniced Emergency yadda yadda? There's a difference between CESA and uncontrolled assent, right? remember we're not talking about trained tech divers spitting out a reg, we're talking about average joe with a mouthfull of salt water and demanding gag reflex. Maybe not the best first reaction, but certainly on the list.

The first reaction should be to use your secondary air source (octopus, buddy...) or retrieve your primary if it's still working.

There is nothing wrong with doing a CESA in itself (as long as you're not in deco), but if that's what Average Joe goes for first because he swallowed water and is gagging, then chances are that he WON'T be doing a controlled and safe ascent. Why ? Because this is not a situation where surfacing is the correct first option (remember, this is not an OOA situation), so the fact that Average Joe would choose to do it is an indicator that he is not thinking straight, and possibly panicking.

When you freak out underwater for any reason, always take the time to STOP and THINK about what you're going to do. Especially before doing a CESA.
If you still have air in your tank, no matter how bad you might want to get outta here, never go for the surface on an impulse.

 

[telemonster]

Plastic can dry out over time, with sunlight, heat/cold cycles, etc. It becomes brittle. It might not hurt to replace old ties. Of course, the older the zip tie the higher quality the materials might have been

 

[Steve in Seattle]

I wouldn't bet on that... plastic and nylon are UV weakened... and the material they're made of is BETTER than it was in the past, simply due to a maturing industry. Same goes for steel, aluminum, or any other metal I csan think of. There may be some things like makes intentionally downgrading to a cheaper alloy or polastic for cost savings when looking at expected life cycle (i.e. no point in having a bomb-proof indestructable valve piston of tungsten when the casing itself is a soft alloy with a life cycle of say 25 years).

Even the stronger Nylon ties aren't immune to UV effects. Most clear/white and colored Nylon ties seem to be missing the UV resistance label on packages I've looked at yesterday. Only the black Nylon ties seemd to have it on the label.

Just the same, the SS bands with poly coating seem like the best option (though I have a feeling you'll be cutting off the mouthpiece if you plan on swapping it out for some reason. No big deal, easy to do).

 

[telemonster]

I was thinking from the perspective of low cost manufacturing from another country that is known to cut a few corners.

 

[Rick Inman]

Good stuff in this thread.

The thing is, it is ingrained in students from class #1 to never hold your breath, to always breathe. And so the air share a diver does in open water class is usually the last time they are underwater without an easily breathing reg in their mouth every second. Then a year, maybe two later, when they suddenly find themselves underwater without an air source, they have no clue what to do and panic in about 2 seconds.

I use a long hose and bungeed back up reg. Once on an oog drill, I donated my long hose to my buddy and reached down to get my back-up reg and only found a mouthpiece hanging there from the bungee without a reg. That first automatic thought kicked in, "Get me some air NOW". But then I realized, there is no hurry here. I know I can go without a breath for well over a minute, and that is a bunch of time to sort things out. I had been doing a lot of drills for a class that included long swims without gas to get to the donor. So that feeling of needing a breath was not unfamiliar to me, and I new that, regardless of how I felt, I could manage quite a while until I really needed that next breath. So I reached back and felt around until I found the hose to my backup reg, slipped the mouthpiece back on and put the reg in my mouth. BTW, the zip tie was still on the mouthpiece.

The point is, you might be surprised how long you can go on one breath. But without some practice and experience, that automatic response to bolt toward an air source (usually the surface) will override the truth.

Try it on some dives. While swimming along, take the reg out of your mouth (keeping it in your hand) and while exhaling slowly, see how it feels to not take a breath for a while. It might not be comfortable at first, but after a few times you get used to it. Because that screaming feeling that kicks in right away of needing a breath now is a lie. You really can go much longer than you think. It isn't running out of time on a breath that kills people, it's the panic that's caused by believing that you are out of time when you are not. But without practice, this is a very difficult auto-response to manage.

 

[Steve in Seattle]

I was thinking from the perspective of low cost manufacturing from another country that is known to cut a few corners.

Depends heavily on the product. Case in point: Chinese steel is now superior to US steel. High performance engine parts that used to be exclusively US steel are now Chinese... even the top of the line stuff used in NASCAR, F1, etc. Some is still machined to a final product here, but most of that is even done over seas with equipement designed, built, and paid for by US companies.

Plasma screen and LCD TV's are almost completely made in China and Mexico by ALL manufacturers as of 2 or 3 years ago.

The list is always growing.

Made in Taiwan/China/Mexico doesn't nessesarily mean "crap" anymore.