Missing Zip-Tie = drowning?

[charlesml3]

I still don't get it. How in the world could a missing zip tie on a mouthpiece cause someone to drown? It's just a MOUTHPIECE. It's designed to make the 2nd stage comfortable to hold in your mouth for long periods of time.

There is no reason to panic or CESA just because the mouthpiece falls off.

That said, I completely advocate a pre-dive check of all your gear. Everyone should do that.

-Charles

 

[Aquaviolator]

I always check over my equipment the day before a dive but never thought about checking or changing out the zip tie. Thanks for the post, will definitly be checking it now.

 

[akbpilot]

I'll state upfront that I am not a reg guru, but I have had 30+ years experience installing cable ties.

Tobin with DSS eluded to their being "right zip ties" and "wrong zip ties" once. Anyone have any idea what this is about?

While I can't know for sure what Tobin was refering to, I suspect it was the vast difference in the quality of cable ties avalible on the market today.

Many "bargin" ties are made of an inferior plastic with a plastic or non-stainless metal lock that secures the tie. They have a low tensile strength, narrow temp range, and low uv or sunlight resistance. The best ties are made of nylon, with a stainless lock, wide temp range (-40F - 180F) and high uv resistance. The brand I type I prefer is trade name Ty-Rap, made by Thomas and Betts, or known as T&B. Cat#"s TY5242MX and TY525MX depending on the width required. Tensile Strentgh of 30 lbs. Here's a link to the T&B catalog for their high performance weather-resistant ties.

Thomas & Betts | Search Engine

They are black and are avalible through most electrical supply houses. They will not break over the course of a year in even extreme conditions. They are spendy, but my suggestion would be to figure the lengths and widths you need, get a buddy to split a bag of a hundred. That should last you a lifetime of mouthpiece securing.

While a good idea, that will not, most likely, detect a missing cable tie, unless it is a very poorly fitting mouthpiece. Using colored ties sounds like a great idea.

I suspect that most divers have had it happen to them at least once. This is one place where a good deal of practice breathing through a snorkel can save you a lot of grief.

I would caution against a lot of the colored ties as the vast majority I've seen are inferior quality. T&B has come out with a line of "higher performance" colored ties that may address some of the quality issues, but I can't say for sure, as I've not used them (we use only the series I've referenced above). They may be just the thing if the temp range and UV resistance are comparable.

Even some of the factory ties I've seen securing a mouthpiece are what I would deem inferior. Lots of reg techs seem to use an inferior tie as well based on what I've seen on the majority of used and overhauled regs I've handled. I replace everyone I come across with a T&B tie. Of course I have an infinite supply.

EDIT
I just looked over the T&B website, and it appears that while the colored "high performance ties are 6.6 nylon material and use a stainless lock, they are not rated high in UV resistance. There are some other series ties that are colored differently that have a higher level of resistance.

 

[Thalassamania]

Maybe the ties with the metal centers vs. those without.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I've heard that the metal tab ones are inferior because they are more susceptible to corrosion than an all plastic one??? Maybe that is untrue?

 

[Thalassamania]

Could be, I don't know, the ones we have are stainless and don't rust.

Better page Tobin.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I still don't get it. How in the world could a missing zip tie on a mouthpiece cause someone to drown? It's just a MOUTHPIECE. It's designed to make the 2nd stage comfortable to hold in your mouth for long periods of time.

There is no reason to panic or CESA just because the mouthpiece falls off.

That said, I completely advocate a pre-dive check of all your gear. Everyone should do that.

I don't trust zip ties and from now on, I will say something when i see a person rig their pony bottle second stage in a screwed up manner.


-Charles

Actually you are wrong. Having a mouthpiece fall off during an inhalation can cause immediate aspiration of seawater. I've inhaled a few drops of pool water and ocean water into my lungs a few times (on the surface) and it feels terrible and causes uncontrollable coughing. Of course if this happens underwater, someone should not panic, but it sounds like a damn good excuse to do so to me.

I was on a dive boat with a guy who very nearly died from this, solo dive, working hard, shooting fish at around 110 ft and he turned his head, hose got caught and mouth piece came off and he immediately sucked down seawater. Tried to deploy his octopus and could not get to it due to poor placement/configuration and then he just swam as fast as he could for the surface. He said it was getting very dark and was looking down a narrow tunnel when he hit the surface. He barely was concious.

We drove over to him, put him back down on oxygen at 20 feet and he was a beer drinker instead of a diver for the rest of the day. Scared the hell out of all of us.

I no longer trust zip ties AND I have resolved to say something when I see somebody rig their safe second (pony bottle reg in this situation) in a screwed up manner. This was the day that I decided to start using a necklace for my octopus (or pony second stage) just like the DIR people want it.

 

[Steve in Seattle]

Yeah, I use stainless steel zip ties on my muscle car (holding electrical loom away from exhaust headers), but I'd never use them on scuba gear. They're high quality ties, but a metal band on a silicone mouthpiece just doesn't seem like a great idea (I picture cutting the neck of the mouthpiece off in a strong jerk or even just repeated use).

This may be an option for those who want to permanently mount a sling to a pony bottle (instead of a screw driven worm-gear band clamp), but not a mouthpiece zip. Examples:
Metal Cable Ties, Stainless steel cable ties, aluminum ties, Pan-alum, Panduit MLT, PAN-STEEL, pan steel
Stainless Zip Ties, Steep Zip Ties, Stainless Steel Cable Ties - Nelco Products.)

 

[Thalassamania]

I think what I use is:

Pan-Steel Polyester Coated Stainless Steel Cable Ties
From $175.65 - 100 pk
Panduit’s PAN-STEEL Stainless Steel Fully Coated Cable Ties combine the strength of steel and the protection of a polyester coating for a long term bundling solution. These standard, heavy, extra-heavy and super-heavy ties provide a durable solution to bundling and fastening in harsh conditions where corrosion and temperature extremes are a concern. Ideal against vibration, UV radiation, and salt spray.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

There are zip ties with a small metal tab that grabs the nylon band, that is what I was thinking off. $175 for zip ties. My regulator costs less than that!