Missing Diver off of Kahala, Oahu, Hawaii

[DandyDon]

Just because rental gear doesn't typically come with signalling or other safety devices doesn't mean that a renter can't carry them. I always bring my own gear but last fall on a trip to the Red Sea, due to severe luggage restrictions on multiple inter-Egypt flights, I brought only my personal and safety equipment and rented the rest. I brought my SMB, Scubalert, shears, 2 dive lights, Glo-Toob plus a chemical light just in case. I had arranged in advance the type and size of BCD I would be renting so I knew I had pockets/D-rings to place the gear in/on. The only things I didn't bring were my whistle and slate. After each set of dives, I just had to remember to remove my belongings from the rental gear, and it really wasn't an issue.

The safety equipment that I brought to use with the rental gear took up hardly any space or weight, but it gave me peace of mind.

Wise, but rare.

 

[DandyDon]

So you've lead a lot of divers in over their head huh? And alowed them to use poor qualty gear? Shame on you.

Z, your info was helpful but if tourists show up with AOW cards and their own gear - do Ops commonly test the divers and their gear before taking them on dives? Some locations do take new divers on check-out dives but they're really not all that informative. I have certainly screwed up a few times but I didn't look to the DM to save me from my mistakes.

 

[DevonDiver]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Thread has been purged of several posts that violate the Special Forum Rules for A&I. Please note that special rules apply to discussions in this forum and make a point of adhering to those rules.

If another member violates those rules, please report them to the moderator staff. Do not respond to them, as this is also a violation of the forum rules.

Persistent offenders will not be permitted to take further part in discussions in this thread and/or the A&I forum.

Thank you

---

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Finally, IANAL, but I wonder about the liability of the dive operator taking groups of divers without defined buddy responsibilities on commercial dive tours led by a DM. It seems to me that (given the divers are usually not solo certified and never solo equipped) at this point the DM is effectively accepting the responsibility and the liability of being everyone's buddy. Since they are a paid professional, they are the one that gets sued, rightly or wrongly. Does this mean that Hawaii dive ops need to stop running gang dives?

AFAIC, the legal issue is somewhat countered by the operator not pairing up divers. If the release asks something like "Are you aware of safe diving practices and will you dive that way with us?" and the diver answers "yes" then doesn't if fall to the single certified diver to initiate buddying with the other divers, or expressly request the guide be their buddy; to which an honest guide might warn they can not be the best buddy AND perform all the duties of their job.

IIRC, the wording in the State of Hawaii's "Commercial Diving Regulations" which seems just a copy/paste from the National OSHA "Commercial Diving Regulations" requires all divers to be diving a known plan and to be supervised. Hawaii dive operators will not generally admit that that has anything to do with the fact that virtually all typical charter boat diving here is guided to a fixed plan. For the most part I think the official version operators prefer is that Hawaii's uniqueness needs to be pointed out, or guests give negative reviews 'cause they didn't see anything.

Having worked as a guide for the area and site in question, I find the "mild" description of surface and dive conditions to be perfectly understandable and believable.

 

[divermike1011]

Helemano: For some reason I was under the impression that recreational diving wasn't under the auspices of OSHA/Commercial diving... you mind providing a link?

Michael

 

[ChrisMan]

There's not much difference between a reef dive and a wreck dive as long as you stay outside and we dive them in recreational limits frequently.

I totally understand what you mean, but I have led dives on wrecks where the best place to be is actually inside the wreck and out of the current. I don't know this particular site though so I guess my comment may have been incorrect.

I guess what I was trying to say is that as qualified divers, when we get in the water, we are making that decision. A DM or guide is that. They will assist if they see someone in difficulty, but other than having eyes in the back of their heads, people need to realise they cannot see everything. Believe me, I led dives in very limited viz, with often challenging currents, and while I always do my best, I cannot honestly say I saw everything that everyone did, 100% of the time. That's why we place importance on the buddy team right?

 

[Blue Sparkle]

Believe me, I led dives in very limited viz, with often challenging currents, and while I always do my best, I cannot honestly say I saw everything that everyone did, 100% of the time. That's why we place importance on the buddy team right?

ChrisMan's post made me decide to ask for clarification on something that has been niggling at me as I read this thread: Is it the norm in Hawaii tourist diving (or at least tourist diving in this part of Hawaii) to have guided dives but to not have buddy pairs? In other words, is there a lead DM, a train of un-buddied divers, and then a following DM? I feel like I picked that up in earlier posts, but I'm not sure.

In other words, could someone clarify how the DM-guided dives (which I guess are basically mandatory) and the traditional buddy pair mesh in this part of Hawaii?

I'm wondering if the missing diver would have had a buddy.

Thanks,
Blue Sparkle

 

[fisheater]

From my experience diving in Hawaii, it's a DM and a string of unbuddied divers. No following DM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pliny]

ChrisMan's post made me decide to ask for clarification on something that has been niggling at me as I read this thread: Is it the norm in Hawaii tourist diving (or at least tourist diving in this part of Hawaii) to have guided dives but to not have buddy pairs? In other words, is there a lead DM, a train of un-buddied divers, and then a following DM? I feel like I picked that up in earlier posts, but I'm not sure.

In other words, could someone clarify how the DM-guided dives (which I guess are basically mandatory) and the traditional buddy pair mesh in this part of Hawaii?

I'm wondering if the missing diver would have had a buddy.

Thanks,
Blue Sparkle

I my experience with multiple operators on the Big Island, yes (to guided dives without buddy pairs), no (to the buddy pair meshing -- the only pairs are folks who show up paired already).

I don't know if the missing diver had a buddy. My speculation would be no.

A typical dive charter for an operator with a big (not six-pack) boat on TBI looks like this. I don't know if this is similar to how IDH runs their charters, or Oahu diving generally.

* About 10-13 divers show up at the shop/dock. Two or three pairs/teams, usually, couples or parent/child. Anywhere from 1-3 DSD or folks taking OW, AOW, or (once, in my experience) rescue diver.
* Folks get a boat briefing, usually what the USCG wants you to know, plus what not to put in the marine head and where to put your stuff.
* Since there are between 8-10 certified divers, there are usually two DMs (who usually also hold instructor certificates).
* The op divides the divers based roughly on experience into two groups. The divers are told who their guide is.
* There's a site briefing that describes the underwater features, interesting Hawaiian endemic species, and the general dive plan. The plan is almost always to swim slowly toward the primary feature of the site while looking for interesting fish and invertebrates, turn around once someone gets to 1500 psi, swim slightly more quickly back toward the mooring line, and then explore around the bottom of the mooring line, sending divers up individually once they get to 700 psi (so they will, in theory, be on the boat with 500 psi).
* The divers splash individually or two at a time. When the entire group is in the water, the DM signs descend. Everyone descends.
* The dive plan is executed. The divers usually fan out behind the DM. When I'm a single diver, I usually swim in between the fanned out divers and the DM.
* The DM will ask for SPG readings from time to time. Divers are asked to signal 1500 or "turn" at that point.
* Eventually you are back under the boat and LOA.
* The DM signs "boat" and points. Diver signs "I see boat," then "3 minute safety stop, " then DM waves bye. Nobody is watching you while you ascend to 15', or, while you are on the line doing your stop.
* As divers surface and swim to the ladder, the boat captain helps them onto the deck and out of their gear.

Also, for those not familiar with Hawaii, many sites, especially on the Big Island, have fixed moorings. The moorings consist of an anchor in lava rock at 40-60' with a line to a steel ball that float at 15'. There is a line from 15' to a surface bouy (usually an empty bleach bottle). The boat also hangs a 20' weighted descent line from the stern (but usuallly does not hang a stage).

When I was first certified I ascended and did my stop on the mooring line. I could easily see a diver ascending on the line all the way to the steel mooring ball, getting whacked in the head by the ball (which jumps around in the surge quite a bit), and getting knocked out.

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

ChrisMan's post made me decide to ask for clarification on something that has been niggling at me as I read this thread: Is it the norm in Hawaii tourist diving (or at least tourist diving in this part of Hawaii) to have guided dives but to not have buddy pairs? In other words, is there a lead DM, a train of un-buddied divers, and then a following DM? I feel like I picked that up in earlier posts, but I'm not sure.

In other words, could someone clarify how the DM-guided dives (which I guess are basically mandatory) and the traditional buddy pair mesh in this part of Hawaii?

I'm wondering if the missing diver would have had a buddy.

Thanks,
Blue Sparkle

The operations I am familiar with ensured that folks were paired with a buddy when following the guide. Under some circumstances-that is, when the captain and dive staff know you well and have seen how you acquit yourself on the boat and under the water-you're given a little more free agency.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.749811,-73.992001
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk