Missing Diver off of Kahala, Oahu, Hawaii

[Blue Sparkle]

Thank you, Pliny.

So what I take from this is that (in your experience) the divers who show up as buddy pairs, dive as buddy pairs (but with the guide), but the divers who show up as singles are not paired up? So, say there is a group of 8 divers and there are two buddy pairs, then there are four more single divers. Those four single divers are not paired up in any way?

What you are describing in terms of the potential solo ascents sounds like it could be a point of vulnerability. I wonder if that was SOP on this dive, and if there was any/much current.

Thanks for the additional information on what may be typical operational style there (although as you said, we don't know that's how this dive was conducted).

Blue Sparkle

PS: vinegarbiscuit, just saw your post. So it sounds like there is some variation and some ops do pair up single divers into buddy pairs, whereas others may not.

 

[Ayisha]

When I was first certified I ascended and did my stop on the mooring line. I could easily see a diver ascending on the line all the way to the steel mooring ball, getting whacked in the head by the ball (which jumps around in the surge quite a bit), and getting knocked out.

A steel mooring ball? I don't think I've ever seen this. Is a steel mooring ball common?

I've been whacked by a chain and that feels hard enough. I stay away from any hard parts like that if I can and stay away from jumping lines due to rough surface conditions if I can or make a loose circle around the line. A jon line can be used if there's also a strong current when doing stops.

You actually saw someone get knocked out by a steel ball?

 

[Adobo]

Thank you, Pliny.

So what I take from this is that (in your experience) the divers who show up as buddy pairs, dive as buddy pairs (but with the guide), but the divers who show up as singles are not paired up? So, say there is a group of 8 divers and there are two buddy pairs, then there are four more single divers. Those four single divers are not paired up in any way?

What you are describing in terms of the potential solo ascents sounds like it could be a point of vulnerability. I wonder if that was SOP on this dive, and if there was any/much current.

Thanks for the additional information on what may be typical operational style there (although as you said, we don't know that's how this dive was conducted).

Blue Sparkle

PS: vinegarbiscuit, just saw your post. So it sounds like there is some variation and some ops do pair up single divers into buddy pairs, whereas others may not.

There is no reason that you cannot go to another single diver and ask if they are interested in diving as a buddy pair.

The only problem is that an instabuddy can be just as bad as diving buddyless.

 

[Adobo]

I totally understand what you mean, but I have led dives on wrecks where the best place to be is actually inside the wreck and out of the current. I don't know this particular site though so I guess my comment may have been incorrect.

I guess what I was trying to say is that as qualified divers, when we get in the water, we are making that decision. A DM or guide is that. They will assist if they see someone in difficulty, but other than having eyes in the back of their heads, people need to realise they cannot see everything. Believe me, I led dives in very limited viz, with often challenging currents, and while I always do my best, I cannot honestly say I saw everything that everyone did, 100% of the time. That's why we place importance on the buddy team right?

The dive you are describing sounds like it is out of the range of recreational diving.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

There is no reason that you cannot go to another single diver and ask if they are interested in diving as a buddy pair.

The only problem is that an instabuddy can be just as bad as diving buddyless.

Understood. I was just wondering what the common practice was there, if there was one. I thought I may have read into other posts that it was common to not assign buddy pairs, in which case even though one *could* take the initiative to find one's own buddy, it would be possible that many divers (and maybe this one = speculation) did not. Whether or not it is the right thing to do, I think many infrequent "vacation" divers would follow the lead of the DMs, especially if it was a "mandatory" DM-led dive (again, speculating).

 

[Pliny]

Sorry, I should have said "i can easily imagine...". I stopped ascending on the line for that reason.

The moorings look like this: http://hawaii.gov/dlnr/dbor/rules/13-257.pdf (pg 5).

The "foam filled subsurface float" is, from the outside, a big metal ball, covered in algae.

 

[ChrisMan]

Simple fact is, we are, for the most part trained to dive as buddy pairs. As soon as we go in the water without our buddy we are kissing goodbye to an important and potentially life saving piece of equipment. A DM cannot be within reach of every person in his dive group all the time. Choose to dive solo if you like, but accept that at will put you at greater risk of death or serious injury especially if you aren't carrying the correct safety equipment.

For me, if I book a dive on my own, I'll find out if there will be someone to buddy with before I pay. If there won't be, I won't go and will go to another operator. Diving has enough risk without taking unnecessary ones.

Yes an instabuddy can be dangerous, but if you have a good chat with them, go through exactly what you both expect from a buddy, chat about buddy procedures and know each other's equipment, you can probably find out how they are going to be, and if needs be, request someone more in line with your style. Granted, when you hit the water things may change from what you agreed, but that is less likely than you'd think.

 

[ChrisMan]

The dive you are describing sounds like it is
out of the range of recreational diving.

Not really. We go down a line in say a dropping 30 or 40 current, to maybe 25-30m, have 25 fin kicks or so to the wreck and then can either go into the wreck out of the current or fight the current one way and drift the other.

I prefer to be inside out of the current. Of course, I would only go inside if the people I was diving with were properly qualified and equipped and all importantly briefed on exactly what we were going to be doing and why.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Helemano: For some reason I was under the impression that recreational diving wasn't under the auspices of OSHA/Commercial diving... you mind providing a link?

Butch is the only Jawaiian artist I'm a fan of, not just because we both worked for Waimea Falls Park, and my last Red Cross Lifeguard cert was completed in the pool with that name, but my member name is "shark's home" afaic.

http://hawaii.gov/dlnr/dbor/rules/13-256.pdf

I believe the reg's I am thinking of are in this rule chapter, linked from this page...

DOBOR ADMINISTRATIVE RULES

...but the pdf will not open for me (3 fails).

If you read what I typed in my last post again, I do not think I stated that Hawaii charter boat diving falls under OSHA rules, except from an employer/employee standpoint where OSHA rules should apply. The OSHA rules are by definition regarding employer/employee's so IF Hawaii just copy/pasted various OSHA wordings without defining "divers" somewhere as "employees" the result would be an ambiguous reg that may or may not apply to every diver diving from a commercial charter dive boat in the State of Hawaii.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

* The DM signs "boat" and points. Diver signs "I see boat," then "3 minute safety stop, " then DM waves bye. Nobody is watching you while you ascend to 15', or, while you are on the line doing your stop.
* As divers surface and swim to the ladder, the boat captain helps them onto the deck and out of their gear.

Also, for those not familiar with Hawaii, many sites, especially on the Big Island, have fixed moorings. The moorings consist of an anchor in lava rock at 40-60' with a line to a steel ball that float at 15'. There is a line from 15' to a surface bouy (usually an empty bleach bottle). The boat also hangs a 20' weighted descent line from the stern (but usuallly does not hang a stage).

I think it just as likely the guide points to the mooring line instead of the boat, and with regards to the three boat operators I have been employed by, a diver making a solo ascent is supposed to be kept within sight by the guide. By that I mean the group stays within visibility of the ascending diver. Obviously, with 100'+ vis, at the Corsair there could be 80'+ vertical between a hoover and the group, but I think deeper than 100' mooring dives need buddy assignments.

I also think it is illegal in the State of Hawaii for there to be any type of non warning lighted surface buoy; it is considered a navigational hazard.

Boats that drop a hang line from the back are not common from what I see, and the mooring ball is typically deeper than 15' so SS's can spread out on the line from ball to boat, although I know some that are shallower than 15' so bunching below the ball happens.