Missing Diver off of Kahala, Oahu, Hawaii

[wtcreaux]

Just watched the Day 4 news clip.

I have NO diving knowledge of this site (or Hawaii, for that matter). Is there ANY chance he may have gone INSIDE the wreck??

 

[zrxdiver]

Conditions were typical. Three dive companies, boats, were diving the same area at same time.

The 10ft (Face height) waves were on shore. There was 2-4 foot chop at the site. The big swell was hardly detectible in 80ft of water.

Vis was 50-70 feet. A moderate, typical, current. Our boat tied up to one of the moorings, so it wasn't that strong.

The boat cointacted our boat by radio as soon as they realized their divers had gotten seperated, and called the Coast Guard about 5 mins later. Then began searching and coordinating with us.

Their divers and divers from another boat searched in the water almost immedialey.

IDH sent out three of their boats to search on the surface and in the water all day every day for at least 3 days.

IDH found the fin they belive was worn by the diver. It ws one of theirs.

Based on what I saw and heard, and IDHs quick response, and actions in the foillowing days, I am going to dive with them in the future.

My heart goes out to Matthew's family.

 

[ChrisMan]

Just my two cents, but this is a wreck dive and as such all the divers would need to be qualified to that level. Any qualified diver should know that they do not dive beyond the extent of their training.
Similarly I would assume the dive brief, provided it happened, explained that this was a drift dive in current. At that stage it is a divers responsibility to thumb it if they don't feel comfortable, although a good dm would be looking for signs of stress in the divers.

A dm acting as guide is that. Not an extra buddy who can be everywhere at every second checking the air of competent divers every few minutes is often quite unwelcome and will cause people to do their own thing even more.

I've never dived Hawaii, but without knowing all the facts for this particular incident I cannot see why there is an urge to jump on Island Divers.

We just need a few more facts.

 

[Adobo]

If you suddenly turn around and find that a diver is missing, and no one knows where the diver went, and no one witnessed the diver's leaving, then, even if there were a health concern, or a hidden medical condition, it would be my opinion that the operation did not fulfill it's duty. It's the mysterious disappearance that is, in this and similar cases, so damning in my view. That alone demonstrates, IMHO, that the operation is subpar.

I've been on 5 or 6 different dive operators in various islands in Hawaii. I did not personally find Island Divers to be better or worse than the others. In fact, the one I found to be the worst offender in terms of being safety conscious is one of the ones that gets good reviews from vacation divers.

On one trip to Maui, on the way to the backside of Molikini crater with this specific operator, I overheard a DM explaining to a customer about a BC - "press this button to go up, press this button to go down". After overhearing this, I gently asked the captain about going to inside of the crater. To which he replied, "people come here to dive the backside". On that dive, I was by myself at about 95 ft. The rest of the group, including the guy who did not know how to operate an inflator, were at 110+ft.

The experience I have had with all the boat operators have been more or less the same - Hawaii diving is pretty easy. How safety conscious do you have to be?

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

Just watched the Day 4 news clip.

I have NO diving knowledge of this site (or Hawaii, for that matter). Is there ANY chance he may have gone INSIDE the wreck??

Every dive I have ever done at Baby Barge began with the warning not to attempt penetration. Each time I've encountered a hole in the side of the wreck or even at the top of the structure, it's been occupied by a Green sea turtle the size of a VW, or so it seems, sonit's much more fun checking those guys out. Doesn't seem from an outside scan of the structure that there's much to see in there anyway. It's just a brick-like structure, really.


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[Adobo]

Just my two cents, but this is a wreck dive and as such all the divers would need to be qualified to that level. Any qualified diver should know that they do not dive beyond the extent of their training.
Similarly I would assume the dive brief, provided it happened, explained that this was a drift dive in current. At that stage it is a divers responsibility to thumb it if they don't feel comfortable, although a good dm would be looking for signs of stress in the divers.

A dm acting as guide is that. Not an extra buddy who can be everywhere at every second checking the air of competent divers every few minutes is often quite unwelcome and will cause people to do their own thing even more.

I've never dived Hawaii, but without knowing all the facts for this particular incident I cannot see why there is an urge to jump on Island Divers.

We just need a few more facts.

Unless they were penetrating the wreck, what's the difference between visiting a wreck and visiting a reef?

To me, the scary part of these types of vacation dives is that you are diving with a gaggle who would not miss if you were gone and likely, you aren't diving with the tools you will likely need if a drift dive goes sour.

 

[Thalassamania]

The ten foot wave hights were the OFFSHORE crest to trough heights are recorded by the NOAA satellites. Wave heights on shore, at least here on the Big Island, were somewhat higher.

It sounds like the things that the operator did AFTER the problem where all appropriate and commendable, they are not what are in question and have no bearing on the real issue. Perhaps the divers that are arriving at their door are not up to the dives that the operator is taking them out on, we all know that the quality of diver training is not what it should be, but who should know that better than an operator who is in daily contact with the problem? The problem still stands, a diver went off the boat and did not come back and no one knows when and why the diver was separated from the group ... that is unacceptable, and, like it or not, that is a breach of the duty that it appears most of the operators here in Hawaii take on themselves willingly by requiring escorted dives.

 

[DandyDon]

I've not been to Hawaii since I started Scuba but I get the idea that it's generally a vacation locations with some diving to most and visiting divers will be mostly on rental gear, lacking signaling devices like SMBs, etc. I have never dived without one but I am amazed at how many go to sea without them. I've brought that up in Basic Scuba a few times; someone else's turn. But we don't know much about the missing diver or if he surfaced do we?

Just my two cents, but this is a wreck dive and as such all the divers would need to be qualified to that level. Any qualified diver should know that they do not dive beyond the extent of their training.

There's not much difference between a reef dive and a wreck dive as long as you stay outside and we dive them in recreational limits frequently.

I think we may have had some misinformation from news media on how long it was before the Op noticed one missing. I have dived with one Op whose captain meets divers boarding to ask questions and mark them off but most are not as diligent. Apparently he was diving alone with the group, not with a buddy - a mistake I often make.

 

[k ellis]

It doesn't matter if it was a medical condition or a current that swept the diver out to sea. He went missing under the watch of the dive op. When dive masters get in the water with clients, there is an implied duty of care. Not babysitting, but they're responsible for having a certain level of awareness regarding their divers.



Yes, that has happened to me. But that doesn't mean that one person's bad experience was invalid, or that another person's good experience was invalid.



Past experiences of divers regarding a certain dive op (good and bad) provide context and that is valuable, IMO. As far as waiting "until more details are in the open," hmm, that may or may not happen.

Well its apparent your not going to look at the reality of the situation so sorry I cant convince you of the realities of real life dive mastering and how there is no way in the conditions mentioned if accurate a divemaster would be able to watch every diver every second of the dive. I wont continue this particular debate any further as i will focus on the issue at hand and wait for the facts to unravel if we are fortunate enough to ever learn the truth.

On a sidenote guys is the family still popping in? I know they came in earlier in the thread and I was wondering if they have been told anything new or could help with an update.

 

[Thalassamania]

Well its apparent your not going to look at the reality of the situation so sorry I cant convince you of the realities of real life dive mastering and how there is no way in the conditions mentioned if accurate a divemaster would be able to watch every diver every second of the dive. I wont continue this particular debate any further as i will focus on the issue at hand and wait for the facts to unravel if we are fortunate enough to ever learn the truth.

On a sidenote guys is the family still popping in? I know they came in earlier in the thread and I was wondering if they have been told anything new or could help with an update.

Hang on, are you saying that when conditions are so bad that SOPs can't be followed, and it is impossible for a DM to meet the normal level of care, then it is OK to carry on with a diminished level of protection and care, because that's the "reality?"