Message deleted. Really?

[Cave Diver]

Hi NetDoc,

Is there another hidden ScubaBoard TOS?

The reason I ask is that when I post fully within the TOS, I have been banned from a thread where I did nothing wrong, and was the victims of a personal attack. Then, when I reported the violation of the TOS and reminded the poster who violated the TOS, I was banned from the thread.

It seems there is another "hidden or private" set of rules that says "if you are victim of an attack or a TOS violation, we will ban the victim if you try to enforce the TOS on your own".

I'm not sure what you mean by enforcing the ToS on your own. The section that refers to the handling of this is quoted below.

This is a friendly forum based on mutual respect. While the Moderators will do their best to keep it that way, it's impossible for us to review every post. If any post seems to violate the spirit of this concept, please use the Report Bad Post button Report Bad Post at the bottom of the post to notify us. All posts are the opinions of their respective authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of ScubaBoard. We are not responsible for posts' content, authenticity or accuracy.

No post should exceed a "PG" rating (link). Profane, racial, insulting or mean spirited language is simply not allowed here and this includes any sort of harassment or cyber bullying. Threats of any sort are grounds for immediate permanent suspension; there is never a reason to resort to personal attacks. If you feel that you have been attacked, please do not retaliate; instead use the Report Bad Post button Report Bad Post at the bottom of each post to notify us

Without knowing specifically what you were involved in, it's hard to comment. If you'd like to PM me with the details I'll be more than happy to take a look and see if I can resolve it for you.

 

[funrecdiver]

Hi Cave Dive,

PM sent.

OBTW, I never retaliate when attacked for posting. I have, however, gently pointed out that a post was a violation of the TOS not to personally attack others. This is certainly not "retaliation".

It seems there is a hidden TOS that says "do not point out the TOS to others". Perhaps that should be clearly listed in the TOS as well?

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

I remember I had a post of mine deleted once......it straightened me up and I fly straight now. Nothing but clean and halpful .

Oh sorry Steve. I didn't mean to laugh. Your as hapful as the rest of us.

Boy scouts. That what you are.:cool2:

 

[The Chairman]

Hi NetDoc,

Is there another hidden ScubaBoard TOS?
Please clarify!

Thanks!

A post was reported...

I went into that thread and posted:

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Why all the snarkiness?

Everyone has a right to their opinion and you have the right to agree or disagree.

In the process, you don't need to flame each other. Rather, just tell us about your experience and how it was different.

Continued fighting will result in thread bans.

Thank you.

---

Two posts later I clarified with this:

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

The world is watching and people are reporting these posts.

Enough is enough.

If you must discuss this, please use site support.

---

Now I have banned three people (including yourself) for simply not listening to a pretty explicit and direct request to STOP the fighting.

Posting privileges will be restored in the morning for all parties. Give it a rest and stick to the subject next time.

 

[funrecdiver]

Hey NetDoc,

I did not do any fighting and did not post any negative comments (about anyone). You cannot find any post where I fought with anyone or violated any TOS. I provided a very objective trip report. I even refrained from naming any names!

You are asking the wrong person to stop the fighting. You should ban the people who violated the TOS, not the person attacked by the TOS violators.

You are basically banning the person who was attacked. That seems to be a hidden rule isn't it?

In other words, if posters violate the TOS and attack someone who have posted an objective, well considered report or opinion, you will ban the person who reported the violation and also pointed out the TOS violation.

That is not fair, really.

 

[The Chairman]

Please: do NOT try to enforce the ToS. Just use the

post button and a friendly mod will check things out. They are pretty good, and they won't be biased by being in the thread. Really. They are great at what they do.

 

[funrecdiver]

OK. Now I know what I did wrong. I pointed out the TOS twice.

Could you please be clear on this in the SB TOS that no users should point out the TOS or they could be banned from a thread for doing so?

I run a large techie forum (not nearly as big as this big successful forum), we have a stricter TOS than here (that is one reason we are smaller). However, we do not ban people from threads when they point out someone is violating the TOS.

We do encourage them to report, as do you.

However, in the Thailand forum, this forum has a long history of posters who will go to no ends to personally attack someone they disagree with. If it was our forums, we would ban, immediately, anyone who attacks someone personally. We don't hesitate.

Here, you guys don't really fully enforce the TOS, because people often "go personal" and attack when they disagree. It is not really very friendly at all.

If you guys would enforce the TOS, then guys like me who do not ever attack others and who follow the TOS, we would never feel compelled to point the TOS out to others.

I think you should "tighten up" the moderation, because just expressing an objective opinion about a dive site in Thailand (like Koh Tao) easily results in bullying by many people.

Also, your comment "stick to the topic" seems odd... because the topic was based on my post and I always stick to the topic. However, I cannot stop others who "go on the attack" and since the TOS is not really enforced very well, folks seem to think they can "attack at will" and you actually enforce this behavior when you wrongly ban the victim of an attack in his own thread.

Sorry to point this out. However, I am objective. I also manage a large forum. I do understand what TOS and moderation means. I did absolutely nothing wrong other than to be a victim of another Thailand Board attack. In this instance, someone registered a new ID just to attack when I posted an objective trip report!

Come on NetDoc, don't shoot the messengers, OK?

We need better moderation, not "messenger shooting" because Thailand is a very cool place to dive, but there is a lot of misinformation posted in that forum and when we, the customers, post correct information, we are subject to relentless personal attacks in violation of the SB TOS.

 

[funrecdiver]

Really. They are great at what they do.

Hi NetDoc,

Sorry to disagree; but I don't think the moderation on the Thailand forum is "great". We constantly and consistently see personal attacks when we express an opinion what someone disagrees with or does not meet someone's business objective.

If the moderation was "great" (as you say) we would not have these problems and we would not post their as customers, any objective trip report, and then know when we hit the "post button" will be almost certainly be attacked and bullied. In fact, in this case, someone called "Thai_Diver" registered a brand new user id just for the purpose of launching that attack.

If the moderation was "great" the moderator would have seen this situation immediately, but with the board so busy, the timezone issues, etc. the moderation is not really very good in that forum.

I know, really, because I also, like you, run a busy forum (not as busy as this one!). We also have a TOS, a team of moderators, etc. The main difference is that we really enforce the TOS. No one is permitted to ever attack anyone personally, under any circumstance. (No exceptions).

 

[The Chairman]

OK. Now I know what I did wrong. I pointed out the TOS twice.

That would be incorrect. I asked EVERYONE to stop discussing the fighting. That included you. However, you did not stop.

However, in the Thailand forum, this forum has a long history of posters who will go to no ends to personally attack someone they disagree with.

There just aren't that many reported posts from the Thailand forum. That would be a FAIL on your part to let us know when that is happening. I have no reason to frequent the Thailand forum and neither do most of the mods. Your forum is only as friendly as you want it to be. We are here to help, but we span a number of cultures, many of which we simply don't understand. In other words, we rely on the USERS in the Thailand forum hitting that report button to indicate a problem.

 

[The Chairman]

We constantly and consistently see personal attacks when we express an opinion what someone disagrees with or does not meet someone's business objective.

Well, when you consistently and consistently report bad posts, you'll see a difference. Until you are willing to put a little effort into your forum, you won't see much.

We are a community. The staff is here to support the community without becoming overly intrusive. They will rarely stick their nose in where they are not invited. This is a radical departure in some ways, but it allows the community to dictate what is and is not acceptable.