I'll wait for the XXLs then. I wear a size 12 EE OTB boot... not a bootie. Not enough ankle support for me in a bootie. FWIW, I'll probably have to find a replacement boot soon as those are being discontinued.
MaxAir Swim Fins - Stay Down Longer with Less Effort
- Thread starter TECreation
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WetRocks
Contributor
I'd think that these fins would frog kick well. They are stiff like Jetfins and should frog kick similar, except for the vanes should distribute the vorticity and focus the flow better. I tried an earlier generation prototype of the MaxAir and thought it will make a very good scuba fin. I don't recall if I tried to frog kick it though.
I think the frog kick is kind of a dumb kick technique unless you are in a silty cave, and I don't dive there; so I never use it. In OW, divers frog kicking remind me of Vanilla Ice; "
- Poser Alert". I like using the dolphin kick, and I know that works with these fins because I've done it.
Until someone proves me wrong, I'll support the notion that these fins will likely frog kick at least as well as other commonly used paddle fins. That's my 2 cents.
I think the frog kick is kind of a dumb kick technique unless you are in a silty cave, and I don't dive there; so I never use it. In OW, divers frog kicking remind me of Vanilla Ice; "
- Poser Alert". I like using the dolphin kick, and I know that works with these fins because I've done it. Until someone proves me wrong, I'll support the notion that these fins will likely frog kick at least as well as other commonly used paddle fins. That's my 2 cents.
Usually those who "never use it", simply don't know how. Anyone can flutter kick, but it takes skill to do a proper frog kick. The easiest way to dismiss something you suck at is to call it "stupid". All of my OW students learn the frog kick. Consequently, they don't silt out open water areas and it improves their SAC rate as well as their trim. The problem with people who "never use" the frog kick commenting on how any fin would work with it is obvious: they can only comment from their ignorance. I'll wait to hear from someone I trust or get to try it myself. Again, I'm pretty happy with what I have now so I won't violate the first rule of Scuba and hold my breath.
OP
TECreation
Contributor
In my estimation, absolutely not. This goes back to what I was calling micro-kicks which the MaxAir fins do quite well. Just "wiggling your toes" creates propulsion. The bent knee flutter kick is a great way to do the micro-kicks. It makes good thrust while keeping the wake well off the bottom.
I see you are in the Los Angeles area. We will be in CA (San Francisco area) in Mid June. If you can drum up some interest we may be able to schedule a stop in the area to give the fins a try.
OP
TECreation
Contributor
WetRocks' second frog kick video is what I would expect one to look like. The technique is very similar to what I do. As Revan noted the vanes do help focus the thrust (don't forget about the actual lift). You could say they "grip" the water in a frog kick. When done properly there is a very noticeable lunge forward during the kick although there is little pressure on the foot.
@NetDoc - For the record, I can frog kick, I just have little use for it. It is a technique that makes a lot of sacrifices for silting. The frog kick is VERY power limited. It forces the body into a form that creates a lot of unnecessary drag. It works best with fins that are too stiff to be good at anything else other than the frog kick. In OW diving it's generally not worth those sacrifices, so I don't use it.
Considering that an efficient fin will not be prone to silting even with a flutter kick, and also that if silting really is a concern in OW you can just rise an extra 10 inches of the bottom to avoid it, I personally don't see the benefit to all this frog kicking hype. When I see someone frog kicking, to me, it really does look awkward and unnatural. I'd only want to use it if there were no other viable options. In OW, I'd rather use an efficient fin and use a flutter or dolphin stroke with it, or if silt is a big deal, use a reverse dolphin stroke, or rise a little off the bottom. For me, it works much better than using a stiff inefficient paddle fin and frog kicking it whenever there happens to a little silt on the bottom, or frog kicking always because that is the only thing the fin is any good at doing.
Considering that an efficient fin will not be prone to silting even with a flutter kick, and also that if silting really is a concern in OW you can just rise an extra 10 inches of the bottom to avoid it, I personally don't see the benefit to all this frog kicking hype. When I see someone frog kicking, to me, it really does look awkward and unnatural. I'd only want to use it if there were no other viable options. In OW, I'd rather use an efficient fin and use a flutter or dolphin stroke with it, or if silt is a big deal, use a reverse dolphin stroke, or rise a little off the bottom. For me, it works much better than using a stiff inefficient paddle fin and frog kicking it whenever there happens to a little silt on the bottom, or frog kicking always because that is the only thing the fin is any good at doing.
@REVAN Show us a video and I might believe you. Many think they can when they can't. If it's not the most relaxing and efficient kick, then you're probably doing it wrong. In any even, it doesn't matter to me. Use what's good for you and I'll do the same for me. All the cool critters here in Key Largo live under ledges. You'll miss most of them three+ feet off the floor. I'll continue to stick to my usual two inches off the floor and see the stuff I want to see while not kicking the crap out of the reef.
A modified frog kick done properly is one of the most efficient kicks I know. I rarely need to swim fast. When I do I can increase the power to my frog kick using my Hollis F-1's and keep up with anyone I know.
However that is what I consider a wide open water fin and I don't use it that much. The HOG tech fins I use are more than enough for what I need to do 95% of the time.
There is no excess drag that is noticeable from using a frog kick in proper trim. If someone feel it is creating excess drag they are possibly out of trim or using poor technique.
Like Pete all of my students learn the frog kick because most of our sites have anywhere from a few inches to several feet of fine silt. I expect to them to be able to swim a foot or two off the bottom and have the water behind them as clear as that in front of them and they know it.
My personal goal is to swim a few inches off the bottom and not have any sign I was there. No matter how fast I'm swimming and a modified frog allows me to do that quite easily.
However that is what I consider a wide open water fin and I don't use it that much. The HOG tech fins I use are more than enough for what I need to do 95% of the time.
There is no excess drag that is noticeable from using a frog kick in proper trim. If someone feel it is creating excess drag they are possibly out of trim or using poor technique.
Like Pete all of my students learn the frog kick because most of our sites have anywhere from a few inches to several feet of fine silt. I expect to them to be able to swim a foot or two off the bottom and have the water behind them as clear as that in front of them and they know it.
My personal goal is to swim a few inches off the bottom and not have any sign I was there. No matter how fast I'm swimming and a modified frog allows me to do that quite easily.
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