Master.........Really?

[boulderjohn]

LOL, ok, I'll bite. I started diving in 1973. NASDS, all active duty UDT/SEAL dive instructors, we didn't have BCs, or safe seconds, pressure gauges were luxury items, we had J-valves, scubapro made the mk7 "Honker" that would vibrate alerting you that your air was at 600 psi. The training was rigorous as the instructors attempted to insure you were safe in the water in all conditions. If you weren't an accomplished skindiver (free diver), you weren't prepared to complete the course. I have made dives all over the world. On several occasions I have been refused recognition of my NASDS cert, and also been refused dive trips because I didn't have a PADI wreck diver badge, "night diver", or whatever badge you needed for their trip. So if I make fun of PADI and their mentality, and business model, it is not without merit. Especially when some 20's something "Dive Master" is questioning my skills and experience and my first steel 72 has a born on date stamp of 1974.

And how does that answer my question?

NASDS merged with SSI, and then the former NASDS owner (Doug McNeese) bought out the former SSI ownership and brought all the old NASDS policies into SSI. (I got this information from a McNeese-led workshop I attended.) SSI now has at least as many certification levels and specialty courses as PADI, maybe more. What might have been true for NASDS in 1973 (43 years ago) is not what is true today. What is true today for ANY agency that existed in 1973, including PADI, is not what was true then.

 

[JamesBon92007]

LOL, ok, I'll bite. I started diving in 1973. NASDS, all active duty UDT/SEAL dive instructors, we didn't have BCs, or safe seconds, pressure gauges were luxury items, we had J-valves, scubapro made the mk7 "Honker" that would vibrate alerting you that your air was at 600 psi. The training was rigorous as the instructors attempted to insure you were safe in the water in all conditions. If you weren't an accomplished skindiver (free diver), you weren't prepared to complete the course. I have made dives all over the world. On several occasions I have been refused recognition of my NASDS cert, and also been refused dive trips because I didn't have a PADI wreck diver badge, "night diver", or whatever badge you needed for their trip. So if I make fun of PADI and their mentality, and business model, it is not without merit. Especially when some 20's something "Dive Master" is questioning my skills and experience and my first steel 72 has a born on date stamp of 1974.

Right On!

I had to get a new C-Card (Master, of course ) so they don't question my ability to do the dives you mentioned.

 

[Shotmaster]

I agree, but we do have 40+ years of history in between and what that entails. The difference in diver perception was shaped by the differences in corporate cultures and their respective training philosophies. My daughter is about to begin her formal certification training with SSI. However, she will benefit from my training and experience in addition to the current curriculum. I am retired military and we definitely have a different view of what is acceptable training and experience for potentially life threatening situations.

 

[boulderjohn]

I agree, but we do have 40+ years of history in between and what that entails. The difference in diver perception was shaped by the differences in corporate cultures and their respective training philosophies. My daughter is about to begin her formal certification training with SSI. However, she will benefit from my training and experience in addition to the current curriculum. I am retired military and we definitely have a different view of what is acceptable training and experience for potentially life threatening situations.

You are aware, aren't you, that the PADI and SSI standards for OW instruction were identical (matching the RSTC standards) until a couple of years ago? At that point PADI added a number of new requirements, so they differed. I do not know what SSI did after that.

 

[Shotmaster]

@boulderjohn there is a thing called "mindset", or for civilians "game face". NASDS exemplified and transferred that mindset to it's students once upon a time. PADI never had that focus or way of thinking from my experience. Thank you for the conversation but I may not be able to communicate this so that you will understand. You are defending something you believe in (PADI) and cheerleading for them. I understand that, and yes there has been a harmonizing of the certication standards through the years. Let's just say that I feel fortuneant to have received some great training that has served me well for most of my adult life. In fact, the serious focus and professionalism of my Navy instructors led me me to a military career, mainly because the mindset and how the view the world was different. Cheers!

 

[JamesBon92007]

I agree, but we do have 40+ years of history in between and what that entails. The difference in diver perception was shaped by the differences in corporate cultures and their respective training philosophies. My daughter is about to begin her formal certification training with SSI. However, she will benefit from my training and experience in addition to the current curriculum. I am retired military and we definitely have a different view of what is acceptable training and experience for potentially life threatening situations.

My perception, not having actually taken a "modern" course, is that a basic class (OW, I guess) does not teach the basics. It seems to be little more that what they call the "Adventure Diver" class. They seem to have different courses for different aspects of diving that I think should be included in the first course. Consequently, my loved ones' knowledge and training will be scrutinized and compensated for as needed.

 

[scubadada]

LOL, ok, I'll bite. I started diving in 1973. NASDS, all active duty UDT/SEAL dive instructors, we didn't have BCs, or safe seconds, pressure gauges were luxury items, we had J-valves, scubapro made the mk7 "Honker" that would vibrate alerting you that your air was at 600 psi. The training was rigorous as the instructors attempted to insure you were safe in the water in all conditions. If you weren't an accomplished skindiver (free diver), you weren't prepared to complete the course. I have made dives all over the world. On several occasions I have been refused recognition of my NASDS cert, and also been refused dive trips because I didn't have a PADI wreck diver badge, "night diver", or whatever badge you needed for their trip. So if I make fun of PADI and their mentality, and business model, it is not without merit. Especially when some 20's something "Dive Master" is questioning my skills and experience and my first steel 72 has a born on date stamp of 1974.

My 1970 LA County Underwater Unit cert was never challenged, switched to PADI in 1997 when I got recertified with my son. I would bet it would get me diving today. My initial cert was similar to yours. I adapted to modern times and got AOW, nitrox... I have never has an issue diving.

 

[JamesBon92007]

What is a LA County Underwater "Unit" certification? I don't believe I've heard of that before. Is that different from a LA County Parks and Recreations certification?

Nobody ever told me I couldn't go on a particular dive because of my NAUI Scuba Diver card but once I found out that what the current Scuba Diver card qualifies you for I figured I'd better do something before someone told me I couldn't go on a dive.

 

[stuartv]

Can you explain to me why PADI is being singled out here?

I could be wrong, but I think PADI is distinctive (ha!) in that it offers these:

PADI’s Most Distinct Distinctive Specialties
Underwater model
Aquanaut
Underwater Pilot
Helicopter Diver
Lava Tube Diver
Loch Diver
Submarine Diver
Available Light Underwater Photo
Zen Diver
Backpack propulsion
Golf Ball Diver
Spacesuit Diver
Sinkhole Diver
Future Perfect Diver
Magnetometer Diver
Railroad Yard Diver
Sand Pit Diving
Underwater Game Player
Underwater Hockey
Underwater Wedding
Underwater Basket Weaving

Source: PADI Distinctive Specialty Courses - Diving

Note that this article begins with this statement:

The next time you’re checking in for a dive, when other divers pull out their Advanced Open Water card or Deep Diver card, how’d you like to flash an Underwater Model certification card?

Speaking only for myself, and having spent a number of years training in martial arts, I think the TKD Belt Of The Month Club comment is funny and apt!

 

[scubadada]

What is a LA County Underwater "Unit" certification? I don't believe I've heard of that before. Is that different from a LA County Parks and Recreations certification?

Nobody ever told me I couldn't go on a particular dive because of my NAUI Scuba Diver card but once I found out that what the current Scuba Diver card qualifies you for I figured I'd better do something before someone told me I couldn't go on a dive.

http://www.divinghistory.com/id16.html