mask -- with valve or without

[dmoore19]

Wow, I guess I should have used more of these.

I have a dry snorkel with a purge valve but I never did get a mask with one. I soon found a roll up snorkel with no valve that fits in my pocket.

 

[nimoh]

Wow, I guess I should have used more of these.

I have a dry snorkel with a purge valve but I never did get a mask with one. I soon found a roll up snorkel with no valve that fits in my pocket.

some of us understand you

 

[Subcooled]

As with all clothing, a good fit is important. Try a few masks. Notice three things:

1) does it fit? Is it airtight? Inhale through the nose. Does this pull the mask in? Or does it leak air? You should be able to keep the mask on while looking down even if the strap doesn't go around your head. The underpressure caused by an inhalation through the nose should be enough. If it isn't then the mask does not fit. It leaks. Get another one.

2) how wide is the view? Can you see to right/left without turning your head?

3) can you look up and down without tilting yor head? Some masks allow you to see more vertically. My 'Shadow' mask was the best I could find in this respect.

But do you need a valve?

No. An emptying valve is not needed. I have never had one and I have never been limited by that choice. I have done 220 dives, not much, but enough to show that my masks are 'adequate'. Masks don't tend to fill with water (unless too tight or intentionally flooded for defogging purposes) and if they do, then emptying them takes a few seconds only.

I would get a mask without a valve because a) it may be cheaper and b) there's less to maintain and c) under water less is more. You can get a mask with a valve if you want, and if it feels good, but you don't need it. If there would ever be a catastrophic mask valve failure, then you are in no trouble, as you have a backup mask, or a buddy that can escort you to the surface, or then you just continue the dive without a mask :| Cups that are upside down don't fill with water, so no problem really...

 

[Kharon]

To those who have mistaken frustration for anger - not at all angry. I just find it frustrating that people can't recognize that their single anecdotal experience with a leaking purge does not obviate years of use by thousands of divers without incident. I also am frustrated by the logic of "well they have to put them in the reg but they're not necessary in a mask or snorkel" so they are somehow bad in those. Plain dumb. If the design were bad it would have been eliminated from all equipment and certainly would not be used in something as critical as a reg. Don't mistake frustration for anger.

Subcooled - did you ever think that just because you don't need something doesn't make that true for everyone? I, for example, most certainly do need a purge in my mask for anatomical reasons. I would have a purge in my mask and snorkel even if there was no reason other than it's a lot more convienient. Just because I need a purge in my mask so I don't have to use my hands clear it every minute or so doen't mean everyone needs one. Just because I find a purge in a mask and snorkel convienient dosen't mean everyone will. However, it doesn't mean they won't either.

 

[tracydr]

I used a valve mask for a short period of time when I was a fairly new diver because I could never seem to get a mask to stop leaking. ( I finally figured out that I was exhaling through my nose).
i had two huge issues. First, the bottom of my nose would get extremely tender after just one or two dives.
The second problem was a lot bigger deal. I was diving on a wreck in Hawaii that was around 100 feet deep. During the dive, my valve fell out, actually it fell into the mask. My mask became fully flooded ( yeah, with a hole a cm in diameter!), and there was no way to clear.
Now, I am one who really can't see underwater, even freshwater. Salt water, no way. So, I was basically blind and my buddy had to lead me back to the anchor line. Unfortunately, my buddy sucked as a navigator. He lead me back the wrong way on the wreck, then we had to swim all the way back the other way. So, of course we got to do a large amount of swimming against the current.
Doing a blind dive with a mask full of water is no fun! I will never dive a valve mask again.
I just think the valve is a possible failure point and I try to eliminate failure points. I also carry an extra mask in my pocket because of that incident and some others where my mask had been kicked off my face in current.

---------- Post added March 16th, 2014 at 08:35 AM ----------

I think,as an OW student, that it's extremely important to learn how to properly clear a regular mask. PV masks can cause a new student to exhale through the nose, which will make any mask leak. Also, it keeps the student from learning traditional mask clearing skills. If you ever need to borrow a mask, or buy one on a trip with limited choices, this could become a huge issue. Imagine going years never learning to clear and then losing your mask on a Livaboard trip to Africa or the Galapegos. It would be no fun to have to learn how to clear a mask while on the trip of a lifetime!
Two things I learned in medical school:
1. everybody dies. 2. All bleeding eventually stops.

 

[kevsil]

defintaely no valve, my fisrt mast also had a purge valve and whenever i dove the valve would press on the underside of my nose once i started my decent and was a costant distraction until i surfaced, now it just sits in a box in my basment, a nice low profile mask will do just fine

 

[Kharon]

I used a valve mask for a short period of time when I was a fairly new diver because I could never seem to get a mask to stop leaking. ( I finally figured out that I was exhaling through my nose).
i had two huge issues. First, the bottom of my nose would get extremely tender after just one or two dives.
The second problem was a lot bigger deal. I was diving on a wreck in Hawaii that was around 100 feet deep. During the dive, my valve fell out, actually it fell into the mask. My mask became fully flooded ( yeah, with a hole a cm in diameter!), and there was no way to clear.
Now, I am one who really can't see underwater, even freshwater. Salt water, no way. So, I was basically blind and my buddy had to lead me back to the anchor line. Unfortunately, my buddy sucked as a navigator. He lead me back the wrong way on the wreck, then we had to swim all the way back the other way. So, of course we got to do a large amount of swimming against the current.
Doing a blind dive with a mask full of water is no fun! I will never dive a valve mask again.
I just think the valve is a possible failure point and I try to eliminate failure points. I also carry an extra mask in my pocket because of that incident and some others where my mask had been kicked off my face in current.

Again, a single anecdotal incident that bears no relation to the overall utility or safety of a purge. It is significant to you but can't be (logically, realistically) generalized to all purge valves.

---------- Post added March 16th, 2014 at 08:35 AM ----------

I think,as an OW student, that it's extremely important to learn how to properly clear a regular mask. PV masks can cause a new student to exhale through the nose, which will make any mask leak. Also, it keeps the student from learning traditional mask clearing skills.

I don't think anyone would ever advocate that everyone needs to know how to clear a mask. I'm not convinced that a purge would keep anyone from learning the skill. It isn't rocket science - it's probably one of the easiest scuba/snorkeling skills to understand and master.

defintaely no valve, my fisrt mast also had a purge valve and whenever i dove the valve would press on the underside of my nose once i started my decent and was a costant distraction until i surfaced, now it just sits in a box in my basment, a nice low profile mask will do just fine

One more single anecdotal incident that bears no relation to overall reality. So you didn't get a properly fitted mask - and that's somehow the purge's fault? Give me a break.

BTW, I could give a rat's ass whether anyone uses or doesn't use a purge valve. It's the dumbass, biased, uninformed rationalizations presented as factual arguments that get to me - about any subject (and absolutely no, I do not think I have expertise in every or even very many subjects - though I do have more than a bit with science and logic). I absolutely do need to learn to ignore and relax.

 

[Storker]

When someone asks for opinion and preferences, what, except anecdotes, can you expect? Do you require double-blinded peer-reviewed studies before we're allowed to voice our opinion?

--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[tracydr]

Again, a single anecdotal incident that bears no relation to the overall utility or safety of a purge. It is significant to you but can't be (logically, realistically) generalized to all purge valves.

---------- Post added March 16th, 2014 at 08:35 AM ----------


I don't think anyone would ever advocate that everyone needs to know how to clear a mask. I'm not convinced that a purge would keep anyone from learning the skill. It isn't rocket science - it's probably one of the easiest scuba/snorkeling skills to understand and master.


Actually, mask clearing is one of the most difficult skills that a new diver learns. Which is why there are more repetitions of mask clearing than anything else. It's also something that should be practiced regularly. Imagine a diver who's dived 5-10 years without ever clearing. If they haven't practiced mask clearing they are highly unlikely to have the skill necessary to clear. They may even panic if their mask floods and they can't clear, especially if they are the typical vacation diver without regular diving practice. Flooded masks and inability to clear are a common cause of panic in inexperienced divers. Why do you think an instructor or Divemaster has to be ready to calm a diver and prevent uncontrolled ascents when practicing flooding/clearing?
Another common issue new divers can have is that they might inhale/exhale through the nose. Inhaling with a fully flooded mask or no-mask can lead to water in the airway and panic. Exhaling through a regular mask will flood the mask, again possibly causing panic for a diver that has only dived a purge mask.
Since masks commonly break, it's highly likely that somebody on a live aboard or in a remote area without dive shop access might break/lose a mask. Straps are notorious for breaking and new divers are notorious for losing masks on the surface. I can't even count the number of times I've had to search for another divers dropped mask.
A lost or broken PV mask could quickly ruin a trip for a diver without normal mask skills.

---------- Post added March 17th, 2014 at 09:27 AM ----------

single anecdotal incident[/U] that bears no relation to overall reality. So you didn't get a properly fitted mask - and that's somehow the purge's fault? Give me a break.

BTW, I could give a rat's ass whether anyone uses or doesn't use a purge valve. It's the dumbass, biased, uninformed rationalizations presented as factual arguments that get to me - about any subject (and absolutely no, I do not think I have expertise in every or even very many subjects - though I do have more than a bit with science and logic). I absolutely do need to learn to ignore and relax.

Several people have said that the PV mask has hurt their nose. So, it's more than a single anecdotal incident. Also, what do expect besides anecdotes? A double blinded random study with enough participants to make the results significant? Who's funding this ridiculous study?
The fact that you need a PV mask for your "anatomical" issue seems to be a single anatomical issue as well.

 

[dmoore19]

But it doesn't matter. You're gonna die.