gecko3s
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That link made me laugh... too funny.. I like how he's just spilling the fishes' guts all over the ground! LOLOLOLOL
I don't like PETA..but I do like pita
I don't like PETA..but I do like pita
Manufacturer condones Warsaw Grouper slaughter
- Thread starter peterbkk
- Start date
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ScottZeagle
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Wow....
Pete told me at the DEMA show that this thread was going on, but I really didn't have time to get on ScubaBoard until tonight.
Chad summed up my thoughts pretty well, but I would like to add a few things:
What the Headhunter crew did was completely legal in the United States. If it wasn't, there is no way we would have added it to the website. I understand that, in many parts of the world, spearfishing on scuba is illegal - however, in the USA it is legal.
To anyone who is offended by this single trip, I would urge you to get involved in an organization that opposes long line fishing. The amount of by-catch, reef damage, and illegal sizes taken by a single long lining vessel makes this 400+ pound grouper look like a McFish sandwich at your local McDonalds.
I am an avid spearfisherman. I think it has been over a year now since I dove without a gun and stringer in my hand. I am not a great spearfisherman, I just enjoy it, and it makes my wife happy when I come home with enough filets to invite a few friends or family members over to consume what I have taken.
Scott
PS. I didn't read this entire thread before posting, so if I missed something that deserves a response, please let me know. Thanks.
Pete told me at the DEMA show that this thread was going on, but I really didn't have time to get on ScubaBoard until tonight.
Chad summed up my thoughts pretty well, but I would like to add a few things:
What the Headhunter crew did was completely legal in the United States. If it wasn't, there is no way we would have added it to the website. I understand that, in many parts of the world, spearfishing on scuba is illegal - however, in the USA it is legal.
To anyone who is offended by this single trip, I would urge you to get involved in an organization that opposes long line fishing. The amount of by-catch, reef damage, and illegal sizes taken by a single long lining vessel makes this 400+ pound grouper look like a McFish sandwich at your local McDonalds.
I am an avid spearfisherman. I think it has been over a year now since I dove without a gun and stringer in my hand. I am not a great spearfisherman, I just enjoy it, and it makes my wife happy when I come home with enough filets to invite a few friends or family members over to consume what I have taken.
Scott
PS. I didn't read this entire thread before posting, so if I missed something that deserves a response, please let me know. Thanks.
Doubtful. You pretty much covered it.ScottZeagle:
Balls.peterbkk:
You raised an issue using deliberately inflammatory language, labeling spearfishing as "slaughter" and "murder", and smearing those who engage in it as "enjoying killing innocent creatures".
Sorry, Ace, in most places thats considered "rude".
It's also considered insulting, particularly to those who do that sort of thing and don't think they're committing "murder" by doing so.
Walk into any room and open up with rude and insulting invective, and see what you get in return. Candidly, I think the responses you got were fairly moderate - you weren't "seriously flamed". If you think that was a flaming, why don't you head over to SpearBoard or Rec.Scuba and try asking the exact same question? Be sure to let us know of the responses you receive.
Rude is as rude does.
And the answer to your original question is "No". Nobody is going to boycott Scott's gear.
Have a nice day.
But we're not in the UW hunting forum, we're in the ecosystems one. The ideology is quite different. Smearing spearfishers is perfectly valid in here. It may be low-impact (which it isn't in fact in some areas), but it's still impact, and this being a conservation forum, it's permitted so long as the TOS is not violated. Now if this thread were in UW hunting, it would have been moved immediately by the moderators, to er... here, where it is appropriate. Incidentally, this topic is an increasing hot-button issue with many marine park managers and fisheries scientists... I have personal experience with this in the Bahamas. The general american sentiment is very much in the minority when looked at at the global scale.Doc Intrepid:
Deliberate intent to a human is the definition of "murder", but the lay public and even many scientists (inlcuding me) don't feel it inaccurate when applied to non-humans.
"Slaughter" is simply the act of killing; it does not have to be in mass quantities.
"Enjoying killing" is a bit over the top, but not uncommon in here. The dolphin and shark threads are riddled with similar sentiments. We keep remarks of this nature out of the UW hunting forum, of course.
Personally, I murder and slaughter more animals in one year than most spearfishers do in their lifetime. I even use these same terms when teaching, as they're accurate and mildly entertaining. But I am also irritated that anyone in this day and age would deliberately kill a large female Warsaw grouper. If you understand sea bass biology and reproductive patterns as I do (I believe I posted this earlier somewhere), you'd be vexed, too. Legalities aside, it's not a thoughtful course of action.
One of my best friends shot a 200-pounder off an oil rig five years ago. Man, did I tear into him. He doesn't shoot large grouper when we dive together anymore, so I guess that's something. But I also wasn't averse to grilling that fish up. Waste not.
It never ceases to amaze me that radicals are so oppressive and intolerant with anyone who doesn't share their views and are willing to get violent against those who are enjoying themselves in a legal manner.
BTW, when my family sits down to a grouper dinner, I know exactly what was killed to make that meal. It' all right there, on the table. When someone buys their grouper at the market, they, in general, have no idea how many additional fish, mammels, turtles, endangered species, and threatened species were killed indiscriminately for that dinner. I think most would be surprised and sickened.
I am a spearfisherman (on scuba, no less) and a conservationalist. There is no conflict there.
BTW, when my family sits down to a grouper dinner, I know exactly what was killed to make that meal. It' all right there, on the table. When someone buys their grouper at the market, they, in general, have no idea how many additional fish, mammels, turtles, endangered species, and threatened species were killed indiscriminately for that dinner. I think most would be surprised and sickened.
I am a spearfisherman (on scuba, no less) and a conservationalist. There is no conflict there.
swankenstein:
As ReefGuy notes, I bet most of the people who would be slashing a spearfisherman's tires are going to hit McDonald's on the way home, or get home and cook up some nice chicken that was raised in a 1.5' cube.swankenstein:
Doc Intrepid:
Sorry, Doc, but Peter doesn't live in the United States of the America. He lives in the SE Asias where scuba spearfishing is frowned upon by the majority (as well as illegal). I really wish I had the people in this thread to back me up whenever I get flamed around here for saying I have no problem with it.
As Kim pointed out, this is an international board so it is subjected to international opinion. IMO, Peter should have thought about that before putting up his OP, but we should also keep that in mind before we decide to flame him. Like I said, to help the cause of legalizing it in these parts, it would have been better to educate Peter in a more mature manner than to be derogatory (which he obviously found some posts to be).
Although I disagree with peter's OP, I'd have to agree with his point about your post. The sock puppet comment (while entertaining) didn't add much value to the debate.
Wayward Son
Contributor
I agree that this is the correct forum to discuss it in. However, courtesy & concern for other's sensibilities goes both ways & I'm not seeing that here. I'm seeing demands that we have respect for others values/laws/customs, but no demands that others return the respect for us.
The fish was taken here, in the USA, legally. Why is it that we Americans are suspposed to tiptoe around the possibility that someone, somewhere else in the world, my be offended by what we do, in complete accordance with the laws & bag limits set in place to manage our fisheries, but apparently people in other parts of the world do not need to be concerned about the same thing in regards to us?
Perhaps others should have the same thing in mind? That just maybe, something they find offensive & unacceptable is not that at all, in the place where it occured & by the people involved?
The fish was taken here, in the USA, legally. Why is it that we Americans are suspposed to tiptoe around the possibility that someone, somewhere else in the world, my be offended by what we do, in complete accordance with the laws & bag limits set in place to manage our fisheries, but apparently people in other parts of the world do not need to be concerned about the same thing in regards to us?
Perhaps others should have the same thing in mind? That just maybe, something they find offensive & unacceptable is not that at all, in the place where it occured & by the people involved?
While some are going soft on poor Peter just look at the title of this thread. He can blame the clock all he wants and also refer to those opposing his views as being rude but the title alone is rude....
He attacked a manufacturer and then is shocked at the response.
Yep groupers are tasty but so are bald eagles and dolphins
He attacked a manufacturer and then is shocked at the response.
Yep groupers are tasty but so are bald eagles and dolphins
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