Please - The Stupid Need Not Apply ...

[Lost Yooper]

It would be virtually impossible to collect information regarding the deaths of divers who utilize the basic DIR philosophy based on many factors such as "LAWYERS" and any groups desire to bury the evidence.

I am personnally curious to know how many GUE (who, as we know, endorse DIR) certified divers have died that we have openly never heard about, from everyones input, seems like alot. I'll do a little digging around.

Take care.

Mike

 

[dsquid]

Assuming you're only talking about the tech community:

There probably isn't an answer for this, but I wonder how many DIR compliant divers there are - and what percentage this is of the tech dive community (all certifying agencies) as a whole.

Bill

 

[Lost Yooper]

I think they are working on an entry level course. I've e-mail JJ to see if he can get me the stats, and he's generally pretty good about getting back with me. IF (big IF here) GUE's high standards are preventing people from dying, then it would go to the arguement that other agencies are more interested in making a buck than producing excellant divers. This seems obvious to me, but I'm willing to accept I may be wrong about everything here.
All of my tech certs are from TDI, but the instructor was DIR and followed the WKPP and GUE. My instructor was smart enough to recognize that many of the things he was supposed to convey for TDI were bogus (deep air for one) and instead, he taught more like a GUE instructor. I think this type of thing is becoming more pronounced as instructors take it upon themselves to learn from people like JJ and Irvine. I've seen some PADI instructors teaching open water classes with an emphasis on DIR, and I thinks that's pretty cool.

Take care.

Mike

 

[old_mike]

There is a "Fundamentals of DIR" course offered by GUE. It seems roughly akin to AOW. Buoyancy, trim, finning (including alternative kicks) communication (hand signals...boy there sure is a lot of 'em and lights), more buoyancy, more trim, S-drills, valve-shut offs, more buoyancy and trim and closed circuitliftbag deployment are all covered. Oh did i mention the buoyancy and trim ? It really was a lot of fun!!!! GUE is leaning towards requiring it as a prereq for their other more advanced offerings.

there were a lot of issues that arose /w/ the Hogarthian rig that are not necessarily apparent to those who got all their info about DIR from online sources. In other words, DIR is more than just a BP, wings and long hoses. I worry that the first time someone with a Hogarthian rig is found dead, DIR will get the blame.

BTW, how many Inspiration rebreathers are out there compared to the other makes & models? Rebreathers are a rare sight here in Southern California, but i do see several each year on the boats.

 

[L. Smallman]

I have been reading through this thread this morning and quite frankly, although I do understand a lot of it, some of it goes over my "only one year open water certified" head.

That said, I try not to buy any equipment I have even the slightest qualms about. For example, just last week my buddy asked me about the possibility of us using rebreathers. He asked me because although obviously I am no diving sage, I do read most of the scuba mags cover to cover. In this case I had read enough negative about rebreathers to tell my buddy "Oh no, I don't think we should even consider that right now." When he asked me why I told him I didn't think they were safe enough for folks like us to use. So my point here is: yes as divers we have so much research to do before using the available equipment. I see rebreathers advertised as if it were nothing out of the ordinary for any diver to use, i.e. young sexy gal with a rebreather slapped on her back. This, in my opinion, is also an just an attempt to cloud the safety and training issues by using sex to sell the equipment, but I digress. As we know, so much can go wrong under the water and at the surface as well. And some divers probably do die because they are diving for fun and do not even comtemplate many of the dangers (i.e. uncertified divers borrowing or somehow getting their mitts on diving equipment). So there is major burden of blame that can be placed on the risk taker (diver) anytime something goes wrong...goes wrong.

And of course, as already mentioned in this thread, there are plenty of well paid attorneys to drive that point home. Too bad. I don't want to sound cynical, but as far as our legal system goes, it would be a long hard battle to prove the equipment failure as the only or the major cause of a diving death. On the more positive side, we have this board to avail ourselves of this kind of information. And there is plenty of reading material out there for those wiling to rearch and learn. We can make our own decisions about what we choose to use and we can heed the warnings of others...or not. It's up to us what risks we want to take. I find the amount of time and research it takes to really know and understand diving equipment rather daunting at times. Then when I go to Grand Cayman this month, I will rent my equipment, check it out as best I can and hope to heck it doesn't fail me!

So there is also a great amount of trust that goes into using dive equipment. As in any risky endeavor people participate in (including driving a car everday) we expect to be provided with "safe" equipment and not regulators that fail (or tires that explode, or SUV's that flip over). No matter how you slice it, life's a gamble. I think people jumping out of a plane for fun is crazy, some people think breathing air from a tank on my back in 60' of water (where sharks live and eat)is crazy.

Even though I do try to research as much as I can about diving hazards, equipment, etc., I believe every time I dive I am rolling the dice and taking my chances. All I can do is try to be prepared for any and all mishaps...hmmm.

Laura

 

[L. Smallman]

Upon reading through and reaching the last post in this thread, I forgot the title was "Please-the Stupid Need Not Apply..." Duh, maybe I need to retract my previous post. However, there are probably other divers who will read through this thread who, like me, may find some of it goes over their newly certified heads. So I thought I might at least have an audience with them and hopefully add something of value (learned or not) to this thread. I hope I have not offended the great minds that have preceded me here.

Laura

 

[Ladydiver]

Laura,

Your post in this thread is exactly the reason Scuba Board exists. If we can provide a place where divers of all levels can voice their opinions and maybe learn something, then we are doing our job.

Also keep in mind that even the most experienced diver can learn something from a new diver. I believe it was Dr. Deco that said, "Sometimes in order to move forward, the teacher must learn from the student."

I think you made a very good point. Keep up the good work.

Cheers,

 

[L. Smallman]

Dr. Deco?? I thought it was the little old man on Kung Fu who said that to the young Cain "Grasshopper". Hee Hee Hee

Thanks for the validation Ladydiver. I can't swim with the "pelagics" yet, but I'm learning all the time.

Laura

 

[devjr]

When I first strapped on a aqualung in 1955, any diving with compressed air apparatus was considered dangerous. It was extreme by definition. There was little or no training available. There was no safety vest, no pony, no air gauge, no octopus, etc. The risk was simply accepted with knowledge that the diver must be fit, be a good swimmer and excercise good judgement. The equivalent today would be roughly equivalent to diving with a rebreather, very cutting edge.

Training is one thing but these devices require extreme attention to maintenance and function as well as good judgement. Nothing new here and not an indictment of all rebreathers. It only seems so because people are much more safety conscious today. The attention being afforded the safety record of one type may be a reflection of the total underwater exposure or use which would increase chances for diver error.

I might add that the 50's TV series Sea Hunt attracted new divers by glamorizing danger and hair raising stunts. Times change, hence this growing attitude fosters the agitated remarks leading in to the thread. (Accidents are bad for the "industry").

I was a stroke before it was cool.

 

[simonk999]

www.divernet.com reports that the inquest into the death of a diver using an Inspiration in 1998 determined that probable cause was a loose regulator valve that had led to the loss of the oxygen supply, that led to the mixture of gas that he was breathing becoming hypoxic.