Mandatory TDA membership

[Jim Lapenta]

Jim,

What would you think if all DC's and instructors in the USA were forced to become SSI members, and issue a certain number of SSI certifications each year?

Regarding the DOCT: agree with you Bowmouth, but the DOCT was basically a Phuket organisation. I think one organisation representing all Thailand DC's makes a lot of sense, with maybe sub groups for the different regions.

I see your point. I'd be very upset if were required to lower my standards to that point. Is it possible that if enough of you got together and volunteered to teach your courses under your current agencies but did so and increased the standards so as to meet the higher ones that the government would get off your backs? I don't know the answer. I guess I'm fortunate that here people would never stand for such interference from the government. It would result in many of them being thrown out of office and the officials who had the idea to bring these rules in would not have their jobs for very long.

There may be something to be said for certain SAFETY rules but telling someone that they can only teach for one particular agency and go by that agencies rules on anything other than a voluntary basis smacks of too much government interference. Here something like that would be a clear sign that they are ready to take other freedom's away as well. At that point preserving individual freedoms becomes necessary by any means possible. Kinda like we did with England in the mid 1700's. A little thing called the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights.

 

[Arizona]

Standards is what many here feel is not at issue. Plenty of laws exist, but the rule of law often escapes this part of the world. $$$$$$$ What is the symbol for baht?

AZ

 

[stevenl]

No, it is not about standards.

Jim, I have nothing against CMAS in general.
Regarding CMAS standards: take into account, that every CMAS department, and nearly every region/country has its own department, set their own standards. So there really are no CMAS standards. In general I find the different standards comparable to the other organisations. Some of the CMAS departments though still have some very old fashioned standards.

Katdiver,
I don't think it will be that easy. I will send you a PM with some examples of a typical TDA attitude.
I really hope we can avoid having to become a member.

 

[Arizona]

No, it is not about standards.

Consider the PADI Emergency First Responder course; certain techniques are adjusted for specific regional laws such as how to handle choking situations. If it were just a standards issue this could be easily resolved. Again, "rule of law" is the issue in the wild-wild east.

AZ

 

[katdiver]

Thanks for the information Steve. It seems as if we must "Become one with The Borg". They do seem to hide behind CMAS as their authority to be a force in the diving world. They must be afraid that if overnight their membership was to be, say for argument, 90% everything else but CMAS they would somehow lose that authority. That could be the reason for their insistance on CMAS membership before you can join the TDA. I'm still not sold on it. By all means have one organisation to oversee the general standards to check the basics are in place. Dive agencies sort out standards. Immigration sort out illegal workers.

 

[orangelemon]

The bureaucracy about work permits / TDA memberships / TAT licenses is something I hated about Phuket and even if you have the lot you still end up paying the police for the privilege of working in their great country.

 

[stevenl]

The bureaucracy about work permits / TDA memberships / TAT licenses is something I hated about Phuket and even if you have the lot you still end up paying the police for the privilege of working in their great country.

So you're not on Phuket anymore?

Agree with you, the bureaucracy can be awful, but I don't recognise the "you still end up paying the police" part of your statement.

 

[katdiver]

Agree with you Steve. We play by the rules and the authorities have been very helpful. As for the police, well it could be like a local operator here who complains bitterly of how much he has to pay in bribes for each of his freelancing DMs. That is just the sort of thing the TDA is trying to stamp on, and by having the power to ban operators from TDA-CMAS they now have the ability to do it. Operators who work like that have fed the TDA with the reasons for the current situation. Of course now, cynics amongst us will say nothing has changed and will not change, except the cost of the bribes will go up as there is one more organisation to be kept in the dark.

 

[limbo]

That's a good point you make Katdiver. The TDA is trying to weed out the illegal working force in the Thai dive industry, which I think is a good thing.

The problem is, that if you become a TDA member you have to become a CMAS member and are forced to live by TDA/CMAS rules and you need to employ a CMAS instructor in your DC and certify an X-amount of CMAS students per year.

The situation seems to be that as of 1st September, an equipment approval from, required for the TAT license, is now issued by TDA instead of Dive Supply, as it used to be.
Obviously, in order to get the TDA stamped paper/certificate, you have to become a TDA member and you're back to square one.

The principles of the TDA are good and I don't have a problem with those principles, my problem is that you're forced to become a CMAS member with all involved costs for crossing over etc etc. If the TDA would be an independent organisation, without any ties to any recreational dive organisation, they would have a lot more credibility.

Crossover costs for an instructor are actually 33.100,-THB, according to TDA/CMAS. This include a 3 day crossover in which the 3rd day is optional, upon discretion of the CMAS instructor who you do the crossover with. It includes a CD-rom with all the teaching materials.

 

[katdiver]

That's a good point you make Katdiver. The TDA is trying to weed out the illegal working force in the Thai dive industry, which I think is a good thing.

*It is a good thing, and good for raising standards. The benefits for the workers being in the system are best for the individuals too.

The problem is, that if you become a TDA member you have to become a CMAS member and are forced to live by TDA/CMAS rules and you need to employ a CMAS instructor in your DC and certify an X-amount of CMAS students per year.

*Ageed, and as a one man operation, it's a complete take over

The situation seems to be that as of 1st September, an equipment approval from, required for the TAT license, is now issued by TDA instead of Dive Supply, as it used to be.
Obviously, in order to get the TDA stamped paper/certificate, you have to become a TDA member and you're back to square one.

*Too much centralisation will only slow the system up, this thing should be let to run locally as it always was.

The principles of the TDA are good and I don't have a problem with those principles, my problem is that you're forced to become a CMAS member with all involved costs for crossing over etc etc. If the TDA would be an independent organisation, without any ties to any recreational dive organisation, they would have a lot more credibility.

*They need that tie to get things done, and they need that tie to enforce their values on the greater Thai dive industry.

Crossover costs for an instructor are actually 33.100,-THB, according to TDA/CMAS. This include a 3 day crossover in which the 3rd day is optional, upon discretion of the CMAS instructor who you do the crossover with. It includes a CD-rom with all the teaching materials.

*Of course, let's not forget all those happy CMAS instructor trainers who have had this burden put on them to inculcate the TDA-CMAS regime into the rest of the Thai Dive Industry.