Make Rescue a renewable c-card too?

[Jim Ernst]

Is that "No. Rescue skills don't need refreshing", or "No. I don't want the extra work"?

You have a good point there that I didn't consider, Hmm.... More Money.

On a serious note my **NO** was more to the effect that I don't want to see them make it mandatory..... But to offer a refresher would be a good idea.

I don't feel they can make it mandatory with out some real Issues coming up and some people might not even bother getting rescue because of the extra hassle.

While writing this I find I have some mixed feelings on it..... So I am a bit torn in each direction.

 

[Geoff_H]

It has a 3 year expiry.

But you do not need to do the course every 3 years, right?

You just need to keep diving and then it is renewed without any skills evaluation or need to pay time and money on a new course?

 

[vladimir]

Sorry to keep asking the same question; I guess it sounded rhetorical in my prior posts. Who cares if a rescue certification expires? If my driver's license expires, I risk a fine or even jail if I drive without renewing it. If an OW or AOW certification expired, a diver would risk losing access to tank fills, dive boats, quarries, etc. What would happen if a rescue certification expired? What access would you lose? What fine would you risk? What jail do they send you to?

Maybe the question should be, should rescue skills be periodically refreshed? Sure, who would argue with that? Or maybe the question should be, should divemasters and instructors be required to keep their rescue skills current to retain their professional qualifications? That also seems like a no-brainer to me, but perhaps more debatable.

 

[Thalassamania]

Not gonna' happen. Not because it's not a good idea, but you have to look at where the cards came from. Diver Rescue was invented by the agencies, no cards from the agencies except leadership have ever expired.

EFR is different, it did not come from diving, it came out of the government and non-diving companies that make their living selling recurrent training programs.

 

[John_B]

Actually, you do have to renew your GUE certifications every 3 years. Different certifications require different renewal requirements. At the Fundamentals level you have to submit your log book showing that you've done at least 25 dives at the fundamentals level.

Maybe for the rescue diver renewal you could show PADI that you've done 25 rescue dives in the past three years?

Oh, wait, that won't work because it doesn't make anyone any extra money...

 

[8thElementDiver]

I say the card should last 2 years with a $25 refresher and let people know ahead of time its not a permanent certificate.

$25 every two years to refresh critical life saving skills? How much do you spend in 2 years on: -your cable TV? -your cell phone? -Doritos?

Get your priorities straight. If you aren't willing to spend a reasonable amount of money on relearning life-saving skills, I don't want to be 'rescued' by you. I shudder to think of the quality of instruction you'd get for $25.

Rather than insulting your local dive instructor by asking him for an el-cheapo refresher, do the instructor a favor and volunteer to help out for the next rescue course. It will cost you nothing, is almost as good as a refresher, and the instructor will appreciate the help.

As to the OP: No, I don't think a 2-year limit on Rescue c-cards would be worthwhile. It's already a voluntary course (and my cynical side would say it's voluntary even for dive pros--I've seen candidates at an IE would wouldn't know how to rescue someone with a nose bleed). So you either take it (and retake it) because you find it valuable, or you don't--there's no reason to place a time limit on a skill you think is worthwhile to keep current with.

 

[RJP]

Maybe for the rescue diver renewal you could show PADI that you've done 25 rescue dives in the past three years?

Oh, wait, that won't work because it doesn't make anyone any extra money...

For a twist on this topic I'll point out that my LDS (The Scuba Connection) offers anyone who gets their rescue cert with them the opportunity to re-take the skills and rescue scenario portions of the class - FOR FREE - every year. Any time there's room in a class, simply sign-up and show up.

Of course there are two groups that do NOT have the option to retake the course each year: Instructors and DMs. We must retake it each spring. To make it even more fun it's done in April/May when the water is about 38^oF.

 

[gypsyjim]

I personally am not taking the Rescue course to get my Dive Master or towards getting a Master Diver cert. I have two teenagers who dive, a girl friend just learning to dive and her grandchildren, who also snorkel and may dive soon. I am responsible for the safety of all these people, and wished to be as prepared as possible to prevent or respond to any problems.
I learned the hard way that scuba skills get rusty, that equipment and techniques change, and that it is important to continually retrain and hone skills. Compared to what I spend on gear and diving vacations the cost of an occasional course, or course update is pretty darned insignificant.
Even a Tea Kwon Do Master and Grand Master continually trains and retrains themselves to learn new skills, prefect their old skills and keep from losing ground on those old skills and techniques.

 

[T23]

Let's face the fact certification agencies made a decision long ago not to put expiration dates on the cards. So we all have a bunch of card that only expire when we do.

At the same time I think we all recognize that most, if not all, dive operators are now asking us the date of our last dive. More than one year with no dives and most operators will require us to complete a refresher course. A few operators have now moved this to just 6 months. We can all debate how liberal or conservative the length of time should be, though I'm sure most of us have seen more than one dive ruined due to a diver with rusty skills.

I subscribe to the philosophy that I owe it to those with whom I dive to keep my skills up-to-date so as not to be the cause of a preventable problem or otherwise ruining someone else's dive. I can only hope other divers will be conscientious enough to return the favor.

In my opinion, I think the overall safety and training attitude among divers has generally been on the increase. I believe there are a lot of divers who would voluntarily participate in periodic refresher training if it was actually offered, if it was convenient, if it was affordable, and especially if they perceived it to be of value to them personally.

Maybe I'm missing something but right now in the refresher training department there is pretty much only a single product offered for sale. Seems the training agencies may have some untapped potential to offer other kinds of refresher training considering the plethora of initial training that is currently available.

I plan my dive trips pretty far in advance like many other people. To me part of getting ready for a dive trip means booking air, hotel, rental car, dive operator, etc. It also means making sure my gear is in order... do I need to purchase anything, get anything serviced, test or inspect anything, decide what to bring, what to leave at home? It also means making sure I'm physically and mentally prepared to dive. Right now if my gear isn't in order I have lots of options on how to correct the equipment side of the equation. Seems to me if the problem is actually on the human side of the equation the entire dive community would benefit from having a few more options.

 

[freediver]

Let's face the fact certification agencies made a decision long ago not to put expiration dates on the cards. So we all have a bunch of card that only expire when we do.

At the same time I think we all recognize that most, if not all, dive operators are now asking us the date of our last dive. More than one year with no dives and most operators will require us to complete a refresher course. A few operators have now moved this to just 6 months. We can all debate how liberal or conservative the length of time should be, though I'm sure most of us have seen more than one dive ruined due to a diver with rusty skills.

I subscribe to the philosophy that I owe it to those with whom I dive to keep my skills up-to-date so as not to be the cause of a preventable problem or otherwise ruining someone else's dive. I can only hope other divers will be conscientious enough to return the favor.

In my opinion, I think the overall safety and training attitude among divers has generally been on the increase. I believe there are a lot of divers who would voluntarily participate in periodic refresher training if it was actually offered, if it was convenient, if it was affordable, and especially if they perceived it to be of value to them personally.

Maybe I'm missing something but right now in the refresher training department there is pretty much only a single product offered for sale. Seems the training agencies may have some untapped potential to offer other kinds of refresher training considering the plethora of initial training that is currently available.

I plan my dive trips pretty far in advance like many other people. To me part of getting ready for a dive trip means booking air, hotel, rental car, dive operator, etc. It also means making sure my gear is in order... do I need to purchase anything, get anything serviced, test or inspect anything, decide what to bring, what to leave at home? It also means making sure I'm physically and mentally prepared to dive. Right now if my gear isn't in order I have lots of options on how to correct the equipment side of the equation. Seems to me if the problem is actually on the human side of the equation the entire dive community would benefit from having a few more options.

Kudos to you for placing safety at the forefront! However, if we subscribe to the realistic side of human nature then here is what happens: Retraining becomes mandatory and we lose those that 1) don't want to spend any more money, 2) those who have the mindset of not expecting anything to happen and 3) those who have the mindset of being fully prepared after taking the initial training. Furthermore, as scubajcf posted earlier, retraining is made available through existing courses but hardly anyone signs up. This leads me to believe that they do not for one or more of the reasons above. Ironically, I think the industry has it a bit backwards. When comparing diver rescue skills (distressed diver, panicked diver) to EFR/CPR skills (compressions/ventilations), there is a much greater likelihood that the in-water skills will be used over the course of a divers involvement in scuba yet, the focus remains retraining in EFR/CPR. But as far as I am concerned, this isn't an agency issue, instead it becomes a conscientious diver issue as T23 has pointed out.