redrover
Guest
Very interesting points here about responsibility.
Something I didnt think about but should have when I leaned to dive:
-Asked to see the instructors verification some agency felt he was competent and checked with that agency to verify the determination was current. Im guilty of a trust me learning serious activity. Im a reasonably trusting person, it never occurred to me that friends recommendations could be irresponsible or incorrect. Wow. Luckily I dont think I suffered by not verifying but I sure can see how people can.
Personal views on responsibility for this tragedy:
-I do really think Chad holds primary responsibility for his death. Trusting does not absolve one from common sense and exercising their judgment they can or should do something. Few people can know all the risks but reasonably good judgment leads one to investigate if there are any. Investigation showing 1 call of no problem from a trusted professional and a vastly larger number of no way José from any other type or level of experience is in my opinion; a disregard of available advice. Frankly I find it impossible to believe Chad after 150 dives, had never sought information from any other source than his instructor. While he may not have known fully what he was getting into, he had to have had some idea. He chose to take his actions (from what has been presented here); to make a deep dive on an AL air 80, to dive deep, and continue deeper. Whatever the instructor did to encourage, I dont see Chad forcibly drug in kicking and screaming.
-The above does not absolve the instructor from his involvement or contribution. It merely is a beginning point. When I was learning to drive I tried insisting, But I had the right of way! over a dump truck. The point that made a lasting impression on me was that who had the right of way is immaterial to you when you are dead. However, it may be very important to those still alive.
-Nor do I wish to imply or suggest the instructor should not be held from having any responsibility. I just feel first and foremost; I am responsible for my actions, particularly in light of repercussions from said actions.
Im confused with literal legal implications here (not the ethics.)
-If an instructor is not legally an instructor, how can they be held responsible for following or not following agency or whoever it was that was going to provide the certification for the class protocols?
-If the instructor was an implied instructor (fired from class operator and not a recognized instructor from the agency he was misrepresenting himself as), is he not solely involved? Particularly when this class was independently formed and operated by said (instructor) imposter?
-Is a person that passes himself fraudulently held to the same criminal standards as the genuine article?
-Is the dive shop originally hosting the class, having fired the planned (?) instructor, legally obligated to notify any person who may come in contact with said former instructor and advise them (potential students) his professional capacity may be in question?
-I read the referred to site posts that indicate Chad had done this dive before and was AOW already. (Clearly all is subject to factual confirmation.) If he had done this before he wasnt doing it blindly trusting, but with reasonable awareness from previous experience. And if he was AOW, could he have been just tagging along with a class (albeit fraudulent) and therefore contributing to the injury of other accompanying divers as the instructor is blamed to be?
I do not think any of this can possibly provide any comfort the grieving. From all accounts, Chad was a worthy young man and it appears he made a grievous mistake or chain of mistakes. His passing will no doubt affect those who knew him for years to come, in all probability negatively. One negative is almost certainly financial and I can understand the desire to make someone, literally, pay. Quite possibly the instructor barred from professional accreditation is justified. Perhaps too it may be justified for the family to seek financial recourse for the loss of Chads income support or financial responsibilities. Ive seen no mention of Daves financial status but it seems likely having lost his job and ability for employment in his last known industry, he may be insolvent. Is it a good course of action considering the expense and emotional trauma, to seek such recourse if the defendant has little or no resources? Should/could the justified anger at losing Chad cause unfavorable legal precedent to recreational diving opportunities?
What comfort I do hope the family and friends of Chad do find is that his experience has been made public and someone such as myself, thousands of miles away can learn from it. This tragedy does provide opportunity for improvement. Im considering issues that do or may affect me some day in ways I had not previously considered. Issues such as risk assessment, liability, level of trust determination and personal responsibility in an activity I find is a source of great joy.
Tomorrow Im taking a private Masters skills class. And as embarrassing as I feel it will be due to my regard for the requested instructor, Im going to check his credentials. I consider it a step along the way of assuming personal responsibility, I thought I was. In a way, a small step, I expect to find him more qualified than I knew. Yet I think, a huge stride towards making an informed decision and living up to my claim I do.
Something I didnt think about but should have when I leaned to dive:
-Asked to see the instructors verification some agency felt he was competent and checked with that agency to verify the determination was current. Im guilty of a trust me learning serious activity. Im a reasonably trusting person, it never occurred to me that friends recommendations could be irresponsible or incorrect. Wow. Luckily I dont think I suffered by not verifying but I sure can see how people can.
Personal views on responsibility for this tragedy:
-I do really think Chad holds primary responsibility for his death. Trusting does not absolve one from common sense and exercising their judgment they can or should do something. Few people can know all the risks but reasonably good judgment leads one to investigate if there are any. Investigation showing 1 call of no problem from a trusted professional and a vastly larger number of no way José from any other type or level of experience is in my opinion; a disregard of available advice. Frankly I find it impossible to believe Chad after 150 dives, had never sought information from any other source than his instructor. While he may not have known fully what he was getting into, he had to have had some idea. He chose to take his actions (from what has been presented here); to make a deep dive on an AL air 80, to dive deep, and continue deeper. Whatever the instructor did to encourage, I dont see Chad forcibly drug in kicking and screaming.
-The above does not absolve the instructor from his involvement or contribution. It merely is a beginning point. When I was learning to drive I tried insisting, But I had the right of way! over a dump truck. The point that made a lasting impression on me was that who had the right of way is immaterial to you when you are dead. However, it may be very important to those still alive.
-Nor do I wish to imply or suggest the instructor should not be held from having any responsibility. I just feel first and foremost; I am responsible for my actions, particularly in light of repercussions from said actions.
Im confused with literal legal implications here (not the ethics.)
-If an instructor is not legally an instructor, how can they be held responsible for following or not following agency or whoever it was that was going to provide the certification for the class protocols?
-If the instructor was an implied instructor (fired from class operator and not a recognized instructor from the agency he was misrepresenting himself as), is he not solely involved? Particularly when this class was independently formed and operated by said (instructor) imposter?
-Is a person that passes himself fraudulently held to the same criminal standards as the genuine article?
-Is the dive shop originally hosting the class, having fired the planned (?) instructor, legally obligated to notify any person who may come in contact with said former instructor and advise them (potential students) his professional capacity may be in question?
-I read the referred to site posts that indicate Chad had done this dive before and was AOW already. (Clearly all is subject to factual confirmation.) If he had done this before he wasnt doing it blindly trusting, but with reasonable awareness from previous experience. And if he was AOW, could he have been just tagging along with a class (albeit fraudulent) and therefore contributing to the injury of other accompanying divers as the instructor is blamed to be?
I do not think any of this can possibly provide any comfort the grieving. From all accounts, Chad was a worthy young man and it appears he made a grievous mistake or chain of mistakes. His passing will no doubt affect those who knew him for years to come, in all probability negatively. One negative is almost certainly financial and I can understand the desire to make someone, literally, pay. Quite possibly the instructor barred from professional accreditation is justified. Perhaps too it may be justified for the family to seek financial recourse for the loss of Chads income support or financial responsibilities. Ive seen no mention of Daves financial status but it seems likely having lost his job and ability for employment in his last known industry, he may be insolvent. Is it a good course of action considering the expense and emotional trauma, to seek such recourse if the defendant has little or no resources? Should/could the justified anger at losing Chad cause unfavorable legal precedent to recreational diving opportunities?
What comfort I do hope the family and friends of Chad do find is that his experience has been made public and someone such as myself, thousands of miles away can learn from it. This tragedy does provide opportunity for improvement. Im considering issues that do or may affect me some day in ways I had not previously considered. Issues such as risk assessment, liability, level of trust determination and personal responsibility in an activity I find is a source of great joy.
Tomorrow Im taking a private Masters skills class. And as embarrassing as I feel it will be due to my regard for the requested instructor, Im going to check his credentials. I consider it a step along the way of assuming personal responsibility, I thought I was. In a way, a small step, I expect to find him more qualified than I knew. Yet I think, a huge stride towards making an informed decision and living up to my claim I do.
