Lost diver in Puget Sound

[tonka97]

The big one is to not follow even the most accomplished Instructor or more experienced Dive Team Leader on a Trust-Me dive beyond what we know are prudent limits - as was done by all. There will be times that this will cause problems, I'm sure, and that's something to prepare for... What do I do when the leader wants to lead somewhere I don't want to follow? Am I prepared to stand with safe limits in spite of his anger? ...

+1

Think for Yourself; Trust Your OWN Judgement

Remember this experiment in psychology 201, obedience to a perceived authority figure?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_Experiment

Prayers for victim's family and friends.

Great thread; food for thought for the NEW YEAR.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Oh come on! This wasn't heroism. It was foolishness. You don't go deeper than your air supply or training in order to save another diver in distress.

You obviously don't have any kids ... or a wife ... or a friend you'd jeopardize yourself to take out of harm's way. Every dive ... every situation ... requires you to weigh the risks against the potential results. Whether or not you choose to put yourself in harms way for another's benefit will usually depend entirely on your relationship to the other person. Sometimes, that other person will be someone you care more about than you do your own safety.

How many times have I heard a divemaster on a boat say, "Don't go down the wall. I will not risk my life to rescue anyone who goes too deep down the wall." One of the rules I was taught in my rescue class is never to jeopardize my own safety to attempt a rescue. One fatality is better than two fatalities.

But there was still only one fatality. I knew Chad ... and I don't doubt for a minute that if it were you down there he'd have risked his life to try to help you. It's just how he was.

Whether or not the instructor bears any responsibility for his stupidity and mendacity, the deceased diver is responsible for his own foolish choices.

Whatever other bad decisions Chad made that night, helping a fellow diver recover from certain death isn't one I'd call foolish.

He should not have gone after the diver who was in trouble. He should have surfaced, and alerted the folks at the surface that there was a problem below.

From 200 feet? By the time he surfaced there wouldn't have been a problem below ... there would've been a body below.

There were a lot of foolish decisions made that night ... but the decision to attempt the rescue wasn't one of them. Of all the decisions those guys made that night, that's the one I believe had merit ... and knowing Chad, it would never have occurred to him to abandon a dive buddy to a virtually-certain death as you suggest he should have.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[markfm]

Anyone wishing to do rescues should take a Rescue class by whatever organization they choose to train under, and please follow what is taught in that class concerning limits.

I have to admit, the death of a diver is always sad, but this thread has been pretty unique in terms of the emotion content. Really nasty things being said, whatever the truth. Something terrible happened, certainly, but the "Read Me" for the forum clearly got tossed out the window.

(This is a comment about the overall thread. It really stands out.)

 

[tonka97]

As divers we are ultimately responsible for our actions and the decisions we make are our own. Chad made a decision that cost him the ultimate price. Even a hero of Chad’s caliber can make a bad decision. It would be naive to believe that any divemaster in training did not know the ramifications of this dive plan. Indeed Chad and the others did know the inherent risks that they were about to embark upon.

This does not take away from the heroic act that Chad performed to aid his fellow diver. Chad should be given that award for is heroism. He unselfishly gave his life to save another and again Chad knew the added risks he was taking by going back down to help the distressed diver. This act makes him a hero in my mind. Even after he knew he was probably already in trouble he found the courage to rescue someone in need. That is truly the stuff that heroes are made of.

[FONT=&quot]Remember. Anyone can call any dive, at any time, for any reason. No questions asked. This is a basic rule that every diver knows and should always keep in the forefront of his mind when planning any dive. I feel sure that had Chad survived this encounter he would want us all to remember this simple rule. [/FONT]

Succinct and cogent summary.

 

[cerich]

2 of the 6 divers that day had less than a dozen dives TOTAL.

The comments that the divers knew how dangerous this plan was isn't borne out. The only concievable way this dive happened was if somewhere along the way a person in a position of trust encouraged the dive.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I haven't kept up with this whole thread but the question of whether or not his intentions were noble or heroic doesn't seem very important. These days, the knowledge, equipment, training and methods needed to manage a dive to those depths are all so readily accessible that incidents like this just seem way beyond senseless. How could you possibly make any sense out of it?

 

[Rick Murchison]

I hope that this reply is not removed. Freedom of information Act.

This misconception needs clarification, from time to time...
Like "censorship," the FOIA has absolutely nothing to do with private enterprises like Scubaboard. It is the government that has constitutional constraints on its ability to censor; it is the government that must respond to FOIA demands. Entities like Scubaboard can allow anything legal to be posted, and can disallow anything at all, at the whim of the owner. In Scubaboard's case the owner has decided to establish "Terms of Service" restricting his own actions and abilities w/r/t that "whim," but his right to control what shows up on the board is not diminished.
(Thanks Pete!)
Rick

 

[Gil57usa]

I have been following this thread on and off for awhile now. There are obviously two schools of thought here. one: Chad is a hero, Two: Chad was foolish. Personally I think it was a little of both. I am the head of operations for a Fire dept. SCUBA Rescue team. The one thing that is always stressed in trainings is "Risk vs. Benefit". To the uninitiated this may seem cold and harsh. In reality, the victem is already a victem. We did not make them a victem. We will do everything in our power to perform a rescue within the limits of our training. One death is bad enough, two is unacceptible.
History is full of examples of heroism. These are usually deeds done by ordinary individuals under extraordinary circumstances. In this instance, Chad put aside everything rational to try to help a fellow diver. he acted on emotion rather than logic and training. For this he is truly a hero.
I can only hope that everyone who reads this thread will look past all of the criticism and bashing and examine the real issue that cost a man his life. Inexperience, poor diving conditions, and lack of training for the type of dive being done.

 

[RonFrank]

As soon as they got into the water with a dive plan that bad they were completely off the map. There's no safety procedure for how to deal with a narc'd dive buddy at 200+ fsw when you're both on single Al80s doing a bounce dive.

Lamont hit this on the head.

Had my AOW instructor told me that we were doing a 200' dive to complete my AOW training, I would have walked away, and reported him to the LDS, and PADI. If ANY dive buddy suggested a 200' dive to me today, I'd try and talk them out of it, and certainly not join them.

PADI, and most other dive agencies expect the students to read the material, and understand it before even walking into a class. What about the recreational limit is 130 is NOT clear, and it's repeated many times in both OW, and in AOW.

There is plenty of blame to go around, and I'm not suggesting that the instructor is blameless, but seriously, what were ANY of these guys thinking?

 

[Bobbin-along]

I've sat back and watched people close to the event and armchair analysts have a discussion about this very tragic outing. So many things were not right about the entire activity and they started with the notion to take students and non-students out on a dive that would be considered "experts only" if on a ski slope.

The location conditions, the dive plan, the gas planning (or apparent lack thereof) the experience of the attendees all combined to make this a disaster. Poor judgement of the divers and the instructor were the key to the entire event. And once they were in the water things just went from bad to worse. Chad's decision to go after a diver was his choice, be it from sense of duty, lack of experience, narcosis, or protective instinct. His choice obviously would not be everyone's choice, but it was his and his alone.

As far as blame, yes the instructor carries a majority as quite frankly, he knew better than that. Bad vis, increased river flow due to flooding, new divers who are still working on their AOW, operating outside of recreational depths without adequate training, and the list goes on. Just one of those should have been the giant red light flashing in his brain, but for whatever reason it wasn't.

The other divers also carry responsibility as they chose to dive and they ultimately accepted the risk of the dive. Whether or not you agree, that they understood the risks or not, they accepted them when they hit the water in the group.

I have mixed emotions about the Hero/Goat argument around Chad. I know for sure I never would have hit the water with that dive plan, so I can't put myself in his shoes. Unless you can mentally say that you would/do accept the risks of that dive plan you can't understand the decision making process that went on for him to go after another diver. But I look at his decision to go after another a diver and say good on him, but then groan that he didn't have the proper equipment (and obviously training) that would have made this a good choice for him personally. And quite frankly I couldn't sleep at night the rest of my life if I was the person he saved. My dumbass choices should be mine alone, and I just couldn't deal with the fact someone died saving me from my stupidity. It's one thing to be saved from fires or floods where the fireman dies trying to save me. It's something entirely different when someone dies saving me from being stupid.

Chad was a very nice guy, one I will have fond memories of. We had several parking lot chats when our paths crossed and I liked his enthusiasm.