Lost Buddy Marker

[rjack321]

What if you're disoriented before you place the arrow because your buddy is lost and you're stressed and you put it facing the wrong direction?

I was taught to place an arrow. If this section of the cave has arrows pointing away from my exit I would place that arrow consistent with the general navigation of the cave and then reinforce MY exit side with a cookie. A backup light goes nearby if it gets to this.

If I am disoriented after losing my buddy its not going to get any better in a few minutes if I have failed to find them. Its better to place markers before you start spinning around and looking.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

What if you're disoriented before you place the arrow because your buddy is lost and you're stressed and you put it facing the wrong direction?

Then I can see the reason for putting a cookie, but otherwise no, also which line are you puting the cookie on?

 

[piikki]

I was taught to put an arrow too. Indeed I was not taught to use cookies at all yet (I am Intro). Seems like I am in a minority? I was also taught never to trust unverified arrows, and be very careful with any arrows in cave that aren’t mine/my teams.

If unsure about exit direction, I was taught to make best guess and drop an arrow anyway, then reserve that much more gas for exit to confirm the correct direction after search (or if too concerned confirm the direction first). Then if picking incorrect direction and having to return, correct the arrow for buddy (or meet buddy on return and turn them and collect the arrow on the way).

Here's what I was taught ...

1. You place a cookie on the line. Then search up and down the line. If no success, return to your cookie.

2. Deploy your safety reel and search off the line.

3. If no success, and based on available gas considerations, you exit the cave.

I was taught to orient to exit, drop an arrow towards our exit, and immediately recalc gas. Then scan environment (lights, bubbles, silt etc), cover light and the usual stuff, and go up and down the line. If not successful and gas allowing, do reel search but not necessarily where I dropped the first arrow but where I think evidence is strongest buddy might be. When having to exit I was supposed to leave the arrow to help buddy get the quickest reference to our exit if s/he was in a hurry - but remove subsequent ones close to reel to inform him/her that I have left the cave.

Placing the light in clear water closest to the last known buddy position might not ensure you find the buddy there, but it would also serve as a clear marker to you from a distance where your search started.

This is actually one clear positive I had not thought of. If I drop the light early in the search it will also work as a beacon for me, the searcher. I can reference it from distance and see where I started. Especially when stressed one sometimes starts doubting, and having to recheck obvious things more; now one could estimate the distance traveled with one glance without returning right there if the cave starts looking awfully similar everywhere.

 

[Cave Diver]

Then I can see the reason for putting a cookie, but otherwise no, also which line are you puting the cookie on?

I'm just playing devils advocate on reasons why people choose cookies over arrows.

My preference would be placing a directional marker on the gold line, but that may not always be feasible dependent on my position in the cave. (i.e. side tunnels)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

A cookie? I was taught an arrow... What if you get disoriented and forget which direction is out after your lost buddy search?

Depends on the circumstance. If you need a directional marker, then an arrow is the better choice ... but that won't always be the case. There may already be one (or two in the case of jumps) nearby. If you're leaving a light, you can clip it in such a way that the bolt snap serves as a directional indicator. Cookies ... being non-directional ... are the logical choice to serve as "it's me" indicators. If a directional reminder is needed, then an arrow would be a better choice.

As with most things in diving, I think that there is no "best" answer for all possibilities ... circumstances will dictate what the most effective choice should be. But yes, certainly you want some unambiguous way to know which way is out.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JahJahwarrior]

What if you're disoriented before you place the arrow because your buddy is lost and you're stressed and you put it facing the wrong direction?

Then you are dead. But, what if you weren't disoriented before the search, and the search disoriented you. Then, you are also dead, but you might could have lived. You should always try to give yourself as much information as possible. When you get back to your marker, it is good to have a reminder of which way you originally thought was the exit--perhaps, you originally put the arrow the wrong way. After swimming a bit looking for your lost buddy, you realize you were wrong. Then you get back to your arrow in the complete silt out I caused by typing the words "complete silt out" in this post, find your arrow, and say "ah, ok now I head the opposite way." If you had returned to a cookie, you'd say "oh shoot...I know I was wrong about which way was out before, but now I can't see, and I'm disoriented, and have no clue which way that was that I was wrong about..."

And, a personal arrow should not be a matter of confusion for other divers. It is easy to tell by feel that an arrow is a personal one, rather than one of the larger "gold line" arrows, especially if divers do the prudent thing and personalize their markers with notches or holes, so divers can tell by feel if it is their arrow.

If you really must use a cookie, I would reccomend using a "directional cookie," ie, a cookie modified to be directional. Not nearly so arrow-like as an arrow, but it still signified some direction. This way, there is not any chance at all that any foolish diver would be confused by your misplaced arrow, but when you return to it, it will clearly indicate which way you thought was the exit originally.


You could also use a light and use it as a directional marker, but that only helps in clear water, and only in straight tunnel. You should always run a reel if you are going off of the mainline. Also, leaving a light means you only have one backup if your primary fails, which is something to think about.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Then you are dead. But, what if you weren't disoriented before the search, and the search disoriented you. Then, you are also dead, but you might could have lived. You should always try to give yourself as much information as possible. When you get back to your marker, it is good to have a reminder of which way you originally thought was the exit--perhaps, you originally put the arrow the wrong way. After swimming a bit looking for your lost buddy, you realize you were wrong. Then you get back to your arrow in the complete silt out I caused by typing the words "complete silt out" in this post, find your arrow, and say "ah, ok now I head the opposite way." If you had returned to a cookie, you'd say "oh shoot...I know I was wrong about which way was out before, but now I can't see, and I'm disoriented, and have no clue which way that was that I was wrong about..."

And, a personal arrow should not be a matter of confusion for other divers. It is easy to tell by feel that an arrow is a personal one, rather than one of the larger "gold line" arrows, especially if divers do the prudent thing and personalize their markers with notches or holes, so divers can tell by feel if it is their arrow.

If you really must use a cookie, I would reccomend using a "directional cookie," ie, a cookie modified to be directional. Not nearly so arrow-like as an arrow, but it still signified some direction. This way, there is not any chance at all that any foolish diver would be confused by your misplaced arrow, but when you return to it, it will clearly indicate which way you thought was the exit originally.

You could also use a light and use it as a directional marker, but that only helps in clear water, and only in straight tunnel. You should always run a reel if you are going off of the mainline. Also, leaving a light means you only have one backup if your primary fails, which is something to think about.

Yes, yes ... of course.

Forgive me ... I'm new at this (and was envisioning that you're more likely to lose a buddy somewhere near a jump ... where there's someplace else to go ... rather than in a tunnel where there really isn't ... in which case, there are already arrows on the line close by).

What the heck is a "directional cookie"?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

Then you are dead. But, what if you weren't disoriented before the search, and the search disoriented you. Then, you are also dead, but you might could have lived. You should always try to give yourself as much information as possible. When you get back to your marker, it is good to have a reminder of which way you originally thought was the exit--perhaps, you originally put the arrow the wrong way. After swimming a bit looking for your lost buddy, you realize you were wrong. Then you get back to your arrow in the complete silt out I caused by typing the words "complete silt out" in this post, find your arrow, and say "ah, ok now I head the opposite way." If you had returned to a cookie, you'd say "oh shoot...I know I was wrong about which way was out before, but now I can't see, and I'm disoriented, and have no clue which way that was that I was wrong about..."

And, a personal arrow should not be a matter of confusion for other divers. It is easy to tell by feel that an arrow is a personal one, rather than one of the larger "gold line" arrows, especially if divers do the prudent thing and personalize their markers with notches or holes, so divers can tell by feel if it is their arrow.

If you really must use a cookie, I would reccomend using a "directional cookie," ie, a cookie modified to be directional. Not nearly so arrow-like as an arrow, but it still signified some direction. This way, there is not any chance at all that any foolish diver would be confused by your misplaced arrow, but when you return to it, it will clearly indicate which way you thought was the exit originally.


You could also use a light and use it as a directional marker, but that only helps in clear water, and only in straight tunnel. You should always run a reel if you are going off of the mainline. Also, leaving a light means you only have one backup if your primary fails, which is something to think about.

that really depends on the cave

 

[Cave Diver]

Yes, yes ... of course.

Forgive me ... I'm new at this (and was envisioning that you're more likely to lose a buddy somewhere near a jump ... where there's someplace else to go ... rather than in a tunnel where there really isn't ... in which case, there are already arrows on the line close by).

What the heck is a "directional cookie"?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

A cookie that has been modified to provide directional reference to the user, but not necessarily anyone else.

 

[rjack321]

What the heck is a "directional cookie"?

A marker which is non-directional for the cave diving public but has directional meaning for you. Its either shaped differently and/or has notches or other features along its edges.

This is one of Boydski's, I don't use them myself.