Lost Buddy Marker
- Thread starter Cave Diver
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piikki
Contributor
I have been expecting this comment. I might very well do it if I don't find satisfactory solution. Looks like an easy solution exists. Yet, I am still puzzled how people who do not use cookies make do. Also, now I am curious how people who use cookies but still drop (and leave?) arrows in lost buddy searches really are rationalizing their decisions in these situations.
OP
Piikki, if I recall from an earlier post you are only trained through intro. Unless my memory fails me you are limited to mainline penetration on 1/3 of a single or 1/6 of doubles. Part of the reason for that at is to limit your penetration in order to keep you out of trouble. The full cave class teaches you more advanced techniques including how to handle jumps, gaps, circuits and how to mark the line in these instances. Some of these questions and example will become more clear to you when use them in a practical application. There has been some good information given, but some of it can be a bit hard to follow unless you're already familiar with the situations being described.
Don't take it as a slam. I have turned dives because I'm in "far enough" for my understanding of the layout/system. One of the things which creates and/or adds to confusion is arrows pointing at alternative exits. Once you understand the cave system they are definitely helpful references. But for the early dives in a cave system they can be confusing and if that's the case its time to thumb it and come back for another dive armed with your slightly expanded mental map.
diver 85
Contributor
So...in a lost buddy situation, I'm going to play it REAL safe, and make sure there is no confusion. First, I'll drop two arrows, pointing opposite directions. This way, I have marked my exit, even if I've become disoriented and have made a mistake. After covering my bases with the arrows, I'll further distinguish the fact that the arrow points to MY exit and is MY personal arrow, by dropping a cookie on either side of the arrow (because some drop it in front, and some drop it behind, and I don't want there to be any chance of confusion here). Because I carry three backups, I'll leave my primary light clipped to the line to act as a beacon to my lost buddy. I will also leave my dive computer, so in case my buddy has had a computer malfunction, he will be able to know his bottom time to calculate his decompression. I will leave him a detailed note on my wetnotes, and a backup note on my slate, just in case another team takes my wetnotes to aid in their search for my buddy, if another helpful team comes along. With those helpful aids in place, I will begin my exit after breaking down my doubles and leaving one tank with the arrows, in case my buddy has panicked and used too much gas. Last but not least, I'll make sure that a tube of aquaseal is in my wetnotes, so he can patch any holes in his wing so that he won't have to swim a heavy tank out, because he might have ripped his wing in his panic.
With all that done, I think I've covered my bases.
The only other thing I can think of, is, maybe a line was broken...so before I abandon the cave to save my own life, I'll take a moment to reline all the passages.
Hopefully no one takes the above as serious advice. My tongue was definitely in my cheek!
I've read many pages full of good advice but what's clear to me is, no one agrees on the proper protocol. Properly trained divers should be able to get themselves out of a cave, and make decisions with their buddy about how to handle emergency situations, and I hope people don't just hope and pray their buddy read the last post on Scubaboard before submerging, but that they actually talk about their emergency protocol before a dive.
With all that done, I think I've covered my bases.
The only other thing I can think of, is, maybe a line was broken...so before I abandon the cave to save my own life, I'll take a moment to reline all the passages.
Hopefully no one takes the above as serious advice. My tongue was definitely in my cheek!
I've read many pages full of good advice but what's clear to me is, no one agrees on the proper protocol. Properly trained divers should be able to get themselves out of a cave, and make decisions with their buddy about how to handle emergency situations, and I hope people don't just hope and pray their buddy read the last post on Scubaboard before submerging, but that they actually talk about their emergency protocol before a dive.
Absolutely. I was in a small seldom travelled tunnel last week and eventually encountered conflicting arrows pointing to a sink that I understood to be too small to exit. It created some navigational doubt (potential that I had possibly missed a "jump" etc) and prompted me to turn the dive rather than to continue a push with less than 100% confidence. With more research and the experience of the first dive, I'll go farther next time and by turning the first dive early, I ensured I will be alive to do a second dive.
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The potential for the confusion it could create is one of the primary reasons a diver should never set a contrary arrow. Thinking only about your team is just not a socially responsible. If you need to mark your exit, drop an arrow point to the closest exit with a cookie behind it marking your conflicting personal exit. Also, at the point where one exit becomes closer than another, a set of double arrows clearly advertises what is happening. Leave them out and confusion can result.
piikki
Contributor
Well, it’s all easy bringing up the cookies, eh. I’ve since this thread found at least 3 instructors who all say they do not teach cookies at Intro level because they do not find it is necessary. You all got to admit that the scenario posted above is NOT complex navigation (1000ft from P1 towards Olsen on gold line and back). I can not say though that I am too happy solving it with arrows only (dropping ONLY an arrow and dropping it pointing towards exit/direction that I am not going to).
I, of course, agree with both of you that if one faces a situation where cave confuses you, you should call the dive. However, in the above case the cave itself is not confusing. I had done several dives into the tunnel, progressing 100ft more every time. I did not find it confusing, I knew why the arrows would change and what it meant. I had not thought of all the implications it would have for lost buddy situation!
I wonder what I would have done if something had happened on that first visit beyond the arrows? (I was not taught to leave back up light at that point). It could have been interesting because basically I had contradictory agenda – drop arrow towards your own exit but do not contradict cave navigation? (During Intro course one does not understand to ask these because one has no perception how far one is going to get in the cave). I think I would have been prone to drop couple of my arrows pointing towards P1 with something attached in-between (the light possibly). So, I would have pointed them towards my exit but alerted anyone else with that weird grouping to pay attention that the arrows are odd/wrong. IDK. What I think at the moment is that arrows-only is not a great tool in this situation.
How could ANYONE take you seriously!? You forgot to leave a fin! And what about pointing your reel snaps, did you point them? I would also advice that as long as you have any arrows and cookies left, you should dribble them down on both sides of any further arrow that you encounter – just in case. And if you have a wetsuit or p-valve it would be very good if you could perform a slow continuous stream as you exit. You never know what little subconscious clue will be the tipping point and lead your buddy out.
Aquaseal? A REAL buddy would have just left their wing. I'm not diving with you anymore.
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