Long Hose on Primary or Octo?

[MHK]

Dr. Jay once bubbled...
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I was just wondering which hose is the standard (I guess the DIR) for attaching the 7ft+ hose...your second stage or the octo?

I was hoping to shoot down the right path for tech diving in the future and I wanted to know what's being taught before I start looking at prices and such.

I've heard conflicting things from different people on the board, as well as what shops and such call a "7ft hose for your 2nd stage" and the same hose is also called a "7ft hose for your octo"...I'm soo confused :question:

I've scanned the thread so if this is redundant please forgive, I haven't read each response in total.

However, from a DIR perspective the long hose [ 5' - 7'] in length, but 7' if you are in an overhead environment, is routed on your primary regulator. The underlying principle in DIR is consistency, and the idea being that in any environment or any configuration you are consistent. Furthermore, as you progress into diving doubles and penetrating overhead environments, such as caves or wrecks, the long hose is the donatable hose. Accordingly, you always want your donating hose to be a *known working* regulator. You know that regulator is working because you, yourself, have just been breathing from it. You don't want uncertainty in an OOA emergency. If you donate a regulator that is in a retaining device or bungeed to your tanks or what have you, it leads to the potential for confusion and/or the notion that such regulator may not be working the very second you need it to be working. Your buddy may very well be down to his last breath so why chance it by donating a reg that may not work or may have collected contaminents, or you can't find it when you need it???

Also, as you progress in to doubles and OE's you'll want to route the primary long hose off of your right port. That is referred to as the roll-on port, whereas your left port is your roll-off port. If you donate your long hose to an OOA diver and you scrape your tanks against the ceiling, the donated reg can only roll into the ON position, whereas the left port, the one you are breathing can roll off. If that happens all you need to do is simply reach back and turn your post on. If that happens to the OOA diver you may not recognize it until it's too late..

Hope that helps..

Later

 

[DiverBuoy]

It's clear to me that sound thinking and experience makes a solid foundation in DIR setup and practices. It's always been apparent from your posts. Thanks for sharing such specific details with all of us.

 

[RPanick]

I've been floating through the discussion and this I must say has been one of the more informative threads that I have seen. I do have a few questions that I would like cleared up.

Ever since my OW class I thought the safe second regulator (which I take it is what you refer to as the Octo) was too short. Same goes for the primary when donating air. And this thread has confirmed that opinion.

When I did some reading on the long hose one of the prefered mechanisms for dealing with the long hose was to run it down, under your a light battery, and then up across your chest, around the back of your neck and then finally into your mouth. That actually makes some sense. But how do you do it if you are doing open water and not carrying a light battery to wrap it under.

There was also some discussion on various means of securing the extra using bungies and/or surgical tubing. But that sounded a bit awkward. If you were using only a single tank how would you deal with the extra hose. or is this the reason for using a 5 foot hose.

Next question, the other thing that I have gotten tired of is the constant fighting with the secondary to keep it in the ball. Maybe its the mouthpiece I use, but most of the time the reg isn't in the ball. So using the bungee seems to make a lot of sense. So, that said any suggestions on how best to attach it.

Next time I go to the quary, I think I'll take the time to see if I can find someone with the long hose to see if they can give me a good explanation too. Who knows I might even learn something. :bonk:

Bob

 

[Dryglove]

RPanick once bubbled...

When I did some reading on the long hose one of the prefered mechanisms for dealing with the long hose was to run it down, under your a light battery, and then up across your chest, around the back of your neck and then finally into your mouth. That actually makes some sense. But how do you do it if you are doing open water and not carrying a light battery to wrap it under.

There was also some discussion on various means of securing the extra using bungies and/or surgical tubing. But that sounded a bit awkward. If you were using only a single tank how would you deal with the extra hose. or is this the reason for using a 5 foot hose.



Bob

If your using a 7ft hose without a cannister light you simply tuck the remaining hose in your waist band or if you have a knife and sheath attached to your waist band route the hose under the sheath like you would on the cannister light.

The reg that uses bungees to keep it under your chin uses a 22"-24" hose.You can zip tie the bungee on or use knots

http://www.baue.org/images/galleries/view_album.php?set_albumName=equipment

http://www.northeastdir.com/gearpage1.htm

 

[Padipro]

RPanick once bubbled...
When I did some reading on the long hose one of the prefered mechanisms for dealing with the long hose was to run it down, under your a light battery, and then up across your chest, around the back of your neck and then finally into your mouth. That actually makes some sense. But how do you do it if you are doing open water and not carrying a light battery to wrap it under.

There was also some discussion on various means of securing the extra using bungies and/or surgical tubing. But that sounded a bit awkward. If you were using only a single tank how would you deal with the extra hose. or is this the reason for using a 5 foot hose.

Next question, the other thing that I have gotten tired of is the constant fighting with the secondary to keep it in the ball. Maybe its the mouthpiece I use, but most of the time the reg isn't in the ball. So using the bungee seems to make a lot of sense. So, that said any suggestions on how best to attach it.

Next time I go to the quary, I think I'll take the time to see if I can find someone with the long hose to see if they can give me a good explanation too. Who knows I might even learn something. :bonk:

Bob

Hay Bob,

I know exactly what you mean about the hoses being to short. Teaching was always a royal pain because of it so when I heard of the long hose I adopted it ASAP and have been diving, recreationally, with it ever sense. Someone already said that if you're not carrying a light just tuck the extra hose into the wast band and it will stay put rather well. As for the back up with the bungee, I found that the easiest way to secure it was to use a fishermans knot to tie the two ends of the bungee together and then slid it over the mouth piece and pull each end tight. It really doesn't get in the way once you get used to it and it's always right there if you need it.

Scott

 

[Wreck/Tec]

RPanic
I'm Glad your embracing the long hose concept. If your fairly new to diving this may be another thing heaped upon you to learn to manage, although an important thing. As for the Octo having a longer hose as well........I suppose thats your decision, however a standard legnth hose works well for me. It seems to be adiquite legnth as a backup when the primary has been deployed, and dosn't get caught on things from surplus legnth.
You seem to have the hose routing down, storing it under the light or knife sheath.
As for the tubing around the neck. A knot would work, I on the other hand never liked the knots pressing on my lips, or mouth. No the knots weren't the size of oranges. I'm about to tell all my secret! Go to most any auto parts store and ask to see their selection of compression fittings. There's a part inside the fitting that will be sold seperately called a Farrell. A Ferrell is a brass ring essentially, with tapered sides, and different sized holes for various sized copper or steel lines. Depending on the sizes they have and the size tubing you have, make your selection as follows. You will have to ultimately put two legnths of rubber hose through the holes in 2 Farrells. In other words make a circle with the hose, over lap the ends by 4 inches. It may take a little to get the hoses through the Farrell initally. When you do though stretch it as far as you dare so you can insert the second legnth through. The Farrells go 3/4 of an inch or so inside from the ends of the tubing on both sides with both legnths of tubing passing through the two Farrells. Then take the mouth piece of the Octo and put it into the hole you have created between the two farrells where the 2 " gap between the Farrells now exists. Grab the loose ends of the tubing and tighten the tubing around the mouth piece by pulling. Don't let the ends of the hose escape from the farrell. The brass won't rust, it won't cut your gear, it ultimately will be much smaller diameter than the hose! It won't pull easily at all if you have selected the propper Farrells. It will afford better fitting between your mouth and the regulator, and will be able to be pulled free if desired. Does it sound like alot of work, maybe, but it's better! Listen to the comments you'll be getting....................
Wreck/Tec

 

[RPanick]

I appreciate all the feedback, especially the link to the pictures. That helped quite a bit.

Another thing to add to my list of gear from the dive shop to pick up.

 

[merkin]

Wreck/Tec, do you have any photos. I was already sold on the long hose, but am now at the point of trying to figure out how to secure the backup 2nd stage. What length and type of tubing does everyone recommend? Or how do you determine the right length?

 

[Cave Diver]

merkin once bubbled...
Wreck/Tec, do you have any photos. I was already sold on the long hose, but am now at the point of trying to figure out how to secure the backup 2nd stage. What length and type of tubing does everyone recommend? Or how do you determine the right length?

I used 5/32" black vacuum tubing from local auto parts store. I overlapped the ends and zip tied them together to form a loop for my mouthpiece. Very cheap, easy and functional. The length was determined by how easily I could slip it over my head. I left one zip tie loose so I could adjust it til I got it comfortable, then tightened and trimmed.

I can attach a picture if you wish.

 

[The Pirate]

merkin once bubbled...
Wreck/Tec, do you have any photos. I was already sold on the long hose, but am now at the point of trying to figure out how to secure the backup 2nd stage. What length and type of tubing does everyone recommend? Or how do you determine the right length?

A loop of 3/16" shock chord either placed under the tie wrap at the mouthpiece or tied with a knot that tightens as it is pulled. Look at the regulator necklace at the bottom of this page. http://www.halcyon.net/acc/stagerig.shtml

The Pirate