Long Hose on Primary or Octo?

How do you mount your long LP reg hose?

  • Long LP hose on your 2nd Stage

    Votes: 131 86.8%
  • Long LP hose on your Octo

    Votes: 19 12.6%
  • Long LP hose on...BOTH

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Total voters
    151

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I scanned the thread and I didn't see a few other points that are noteworthy to mention in any discussion relating to the proper usage of the long hose.

One of the principles of DIR diving is consistency throughout all your diving. In other words you are not going to use one configuration inside a wreck or cave, and then use a different configuration in the open ocean. Moreover, you and your buddy are consistently configured to eliminate the possibility of confusion in emergency situations, so once you accept that premise, let's discet why using a long hose, on the right port if diving doubles, is the donating regulator, and the back-up regulator is necklaced directly under the chin via a bungee. BTW, the hose length is always 7' in any true overhead environment, but should be no shorter then 5' in open ocean environemnts..

The basic premise of donating your primary regulator in an OOA emegency is because you absoluetly know that it's working because you've just been breathing from it. The last thing you want to do in an OOA is donate a reg that may not be working so by insuring the OOA diver gets a known working regulator you avoid the possibility that he may be down to his last breath and the *octo* may have collected contaimanents during the dive or may be temporarily malfucntioning. Moreover, by standardizing the positioning under your chin you eliminate the potential that it could have fallen out of the retaining device and you eliminate the possibility that you can't locate it, and if it should free-flow you'll know immediately because it's right under your chin..

Again, once you apply the principle of consistency you'll want to understadn that in an overhead environment, such as a wreck or cave, your primary is on the right port because in an OE if you are in an air share you'll put the problem diver as the lead diver in position 1 to exit. Should you scrap your valves on the cieling your right post that the OOA diver is breathing from will *roll on*, not off.. Whereas the left post, which you will be breathing from can actually roll off. However, should that happen you can simply reach back and turn your valve back on, whereas you may not know it if you are donating that hose, and then once again the OOA diver will be left without air..

I hope that answers your question, but if not let me know and I'll expand..

Later
 
MHK once bubbled...
I scanned the thread and I didn't see a few other points that are noteworthy to mention in any discussion relating to the proper usage of the long hose.

I touched on one or two of these points briefly, but you did an excellent job on expanding on thread.
 
IF we're discussing recreational diving here, then I'm lost on the necessity of the "long hose". In RECREATIONAL diving I've always been taught (and teach) that in an out of air emergency you get a grip on each other (if for no other reason you can insure a comfortable escent) and in other than a panic situation, stay eyeball to eyeball. The eyes will help show you whether or not someone is about to panic, or get worse. If there is a panic that you can not control, than stay away or get away. A longer hose is still somethiong the panicy diver could use to "reel" you in or get otherwise entangled.
In an OOA emergency, in training situatuions for AOWD and Leadership divers, in every case I've ever read about and could document, the person that was OOA went for the reg in their buddies mouth.
Why have extra hose that could get in your way? Seems like the inline (ie AIR II style) reg would be a better idea to begin with.
As far as equally breathing primary and secondary regs - why? The person needing the air is going for the good one, the one in your mouth, where all the bubbles are. A secondary needs to breath good but does not have to be equal to the primary (assuming the primary is a high performer). The person with the air should not be breathing as hard or be as panicky (and we're not talking poor performer for the octo). Of course, seeing as I own a dive shop, having two Scubapro S600 2nd stages is fine with me :) Come to think of it, so is long hoses :)
Seriously, I know there are types of diving that require different equipment, but shouldn't you dive the equipment that's the simplest and best for YOU to dive with?
Just an opinion.
 
pendive once bubbled...
IF we're discussing recreational diving here, then I'm lost on the necessity of the "long hose". In RECREATIONAL diving I've always been taught (and teach) that in an out of air emergency you get a grip on each other (if for no other reason you can insure a comfortable escent) and in other than a panic situation, stay eyeball to eyeball. The eyes will help show you whether or not someone is about to panic, or get worse. If there is a panic that you can not control, than stay away or get away. A longer hose is still somethiong the panicy diver could use to "reel" you in or get otherwise entangled.
In an OOA emergency, in training situatuions for AOWD and Leadership divers, in every case I've ever read about and could document, the person that was OOA went for the reg in their buddies mouth.
Why have extra hose that could get in your way? Seems like the inline (ie AIR II style) reg would be a better idea to begin with.
As far as equally breathing primary and secondary regs - why? The person needing the air is going for the good one, the one in your mouth, where all the bubbles are. A secondary needs to breath good but does not have to be equal to the primary (assuming the primary is a high performer). The person with the air should not be breathing as hard or be as panicky (and we're not talking poor performer for the octo). Of course, seeing as I own a dive shop, having two Scubapro S600 2nd stages is fine with me :) Come to think of it, so is long hoses :)
Seriously, I know there are types of diving that require different equipment, but shouldn't you dive the equipment that's the simplest and best for YOU to dive with?
Just an opinion.


Seems to me you answered your own questions.

You stated:
  • the person that was OOA went for the reg in their buddies mouth.
  • The person needing the air is going for the good one, the one in your mouth, where all the bubbles are
  • but shouldn't you dive the equipment that's the simplest and best for YOU to dive with?
  • In RECREATIONAL diving I've always been taught (and teach) that in an out of air emergency you get a grip on each other
  • A longer hose is still somethiong the panicy diver could use to "reel" you in or get otherwise entangled.

If a panicked person came up to you and grabbed your reg, wouldnt you like to be able to put a little distance between you and them?

Wouldn't you prefer to have an octo bungied around your neck where you could just dip your head and breathe instead of reaching down to where it is clipped to your BC and having to bring it up (2 sec vs. 10) , especially if they surprised you when you were inhaling?

Wouldn't using a similar set up for ALL types of diving actually simplify your diving by not having to reconfigure your setup for different dives and making sure your equipment is in the same place EVERY time?

And the last two statements are in direct conflict of each other. If you are concerned about a panicky diver reeling you in, why would you want to be close enough that they can physically grab you?? I would much prefer they are panicked and breathing on my long hose 7' away from me than flailing around with a deathgrip on my BC....

MHK's previous post answered most of those concerns in good detail.
 
pendive once bubbled...
IF we're discussing recreational diving here, then I'm lost on the necessity of the "long hose". In RECREATIONAL diving I've always been taught (and teach) that in an out of air emergency you get a grip on each other (if for no other reason you can insure a comfortable escent) and in other than a panic situation, stay eyeball to eyeball. The eyes will help show you whether or not someone is about to panic, or get worse. If there is a panic that you can not control, than stay away or get away. A longer hose is still somethiong the panicy diver could use to "reel" you in or get otherwise entangled.

Pendive...

I'm not sure where you live but as I stated in my first post there are some places where the current and the depth, in combination, would make it very difficult to make an OOA ascent holding onto your buddy and the anchor line all the while not pulling the regulator out of their mouth, which is about the last thing you want to do to an OOA diver. This is precisely why I switched to the long hose, even for recreational diving without an overhead enviorment.

As far the in line type of "OCTO" goes, I used to use the Shadow Plus octo. While it was nice because it eliminated an entire hose from your reg I found it to be to short when I was using it during class deminstrations and I couldn't turn my head far enough to the right to see the other divers eyes, which is whole point of the procedure we teach in the class. I only used it for a short time before I got rid of it and switched to the long hose.

BTW, just to piss some of you off...LOL I'm going diving tomorrow, it's supposed to be 80 degrees air temp and the water temp is still about 77. Ya gotta love South Florida. :D

Scott
 
MHK once bubbled...


<snip>.... BTW, the hose length is always 7' in any true overhead environment, but should be no shorter then 5' in open ocean environemnts..

<snip>

Later

You might want to mention that to JJ so he correct his book :sniper:

Sorry, just troillin' with ya.



Padipro, just to make you jealous, my local mudhole is 45 degrees F and dropping.
 
pendive once bubbled...
IF we're discussing recreational diving here, then I'm lost on the necessity of the "long hose". In RECREATIONAL diving I've always been taught (and teach) that in an out of air emergency you get a grip on each other (if for no other reason you can insure a comfortable escent) and in other than a panic situation, stay eyeball to eyeball. The eyes will help show you whether or not someone is about to panic, or get worse. If there is a panic that you can not control, than stay away or get away. A longer hose is still somethiong the panicy diver could use to "reel" you in or get otherwise entangled.
In an OOA emergency, in training situatuions for AOWD and Leadership divers, in every case I've ever read about and could document, the person that was OOA went for the reg in their buddies mouth.
Why have extra hose that could get in your way? Seems like the inline (ie AIR II style) reg would be a better idea to begin with.
As far as equally breathing primary and secondary regs - why? The person needing the air is going for the good one, the one in your mouth, where all the bubbles are. A secondary needs to breath good but does not have to be equal to the primary (assuming the primary is a high performer).
Seriously, I know there are types of diving that require different equipment, but shouldn't you dive the equipment that's the simplest and best for YOU to dive with?
Just an opinion.

Let me make a few points that I believe warrant an opposing opinion..

You start with the premise that you are distinguishing between recreational and technical diving. I assumed since this was the technical diving discussion section that we are discussing technical diving. However that being said, part of the DIR philosophy is simply put, consistency. I don't use one set of gear for technical diving and then use a different set of gear for recreational diving. I stay consistent so in the event of an emergency there is no confusion as to which gear I'm wearing, or which configuration my buddy is wearing.

Secondly, I believe that the air share scenario that you are citing, and that is currently being taught by many, is the least efficient way to handle an air share.. We teach that each team member is responsible for their own neutral bouyancy AT ALL TIMES, and that means especially in a OOA. All too often if there is a real life OOA and you have the donating diver holding on to the OOA diver and he is controlling the bouyancy for both, if they get seperated for a spit second what will happen is the donor will ascend because his BC will be full because he's trying to control both, and the OOA will generally sink without air. I've done several body recoveries where that was the exact fact pattern..

Furthermore, the last thing you would ever want is an Air II. Air II's present an added failure point connected to your primary inflation source, if your Air II fails you'll need to disconnect your primary inflation source. Also, for the Air II to be effective you'll need to add length to the corrogated hose to enable the donor a full range of motion if they ever need to use it..

By using a proper length hose and routing your back-up directly under your chin you avoid many of teh problems I discussed above..

Hope that helps..

Later
 
I know this is way off the subject but I just had to glote. :D

Diving today was FANTASTIC!!!! 79 degrees air temp, 77 water temp, vis was 50+ feet and the skys were clear and the sun was shining. The wreck we did sits in 130 feet of water on her keel and is open at all decks so we did a great penitration. We had a 20 minute bottom time and a 5 minute hang time. And on top of that, I managed to snag 2 lobster on the second dive for a fresh lobster dinner tonight. God what a beautiful day. He he he

Scott
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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