Liveaboard Tipping

[vladimir]

Interestingly, our williingness to tip automatically actually helps perpetuate the problem.

Yes, tipping perpetuates the low salaries.

Our tipping protects the owner from market forces.

No, it doesn't.

Low wages should lead to employee dissatisfaction and commensurate lack of service that should cause employee and customer defection unless the owner pays a proper wage. We have, in effect, taken on the burden of paying the employees and every dollar of tip is just saving the owner from wages ie increasing the owner's profit.

No. If everybody stopped tipping the owner would increase pay enough to attract employees and increase prices to maintain his profit margin. You would still patronize the business because your conversion from tipper to non-tipper means prices are unchanged to you.

The only economic principles at work are tippers subsidizing non-tippers, and the difference between salary and bonus in motivating employees.

 

[Reck Diver]

Yes, tipping perpetuates the low salaries.

No, it doesn't.

No. If everybody stopped tipping the owner would increase pay enough to attract employees and increase prices to maintain his profit margin. You would still patronize the business because your conversion from tipper to non-tipper means prices are unchanged to you.

The only economic principles at work are tippers subsidizing non-tippers, and the difference between salary and bonus in motivating employees.

I think you summed it up very well. I would always prefer an all inclusive rate. And that would still allow me to reward individual service above and beyond what is expected.

 

[Wookie]

I think you summed it up very well. I would always prefer an all inclusive rate. And that would still allow me to reward individual service above and beyond what is expected.

You can't please everyone. I have studies that prove that Americans don't want all inclusive, they want ala carte. I myself am furious when the restaurant adds a service charge. I think I can decide for myself what the waitress was worth, and the waitress almost always loses. When you figure that I always tip in cash in a restaurant, the waitress really really loses.

 

[mike_s]

You can't please everyone. I have studies that prove that Americans don't want all inclusive, they want ala carte.

I agree... but I think part of it is the automatic reflex by many to "pick the cheapest item" and pricing it non all inclusive for most seem cheaper. Until they add up everything.

maybe it's just spreading out the expense over a week, like paying the vacation fee to the travel agent a month in advance, then paying for food/drink separate once you are there. It spreads out the costs so they don't feel the pain as much mentally. Now if they added it up, it prob cost more. especially if they drink a lot.

I myself am furious when the restaurant adds a service charge. I think I can decide for myself what the waitress was worth

 

[Shasta_man]

<< I would always prefer an all inclusive rate>> these ARE all inclusive rates. We pay for the boat up front and are only paying for any extras at trip end.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You can't please everyone. I have studies that prove that Americans don't want all inclusive, they want ala carte....

That's fine for you serving mostly Americans in Key West, but this discussion is about liveaboards--wordwide, I would assume, and serving clients who live all over the world. As I said earlier, I don't see how a liveaboard operator in, say, Indonesia, can expect, say, someone coming from The Netherlands, to tip in accordance with the US custom. An all-inclusive rate where no tipping is expected is the logical solution for dive operators that want to serve a worldwide clientele. I don't want to use my credit card in some places due to security concerns (I've had my card number stolen multiple times in Asia) and don't want to carry a wad of cash. Let me pay everything that is expected of me before I leave home.

 

[mike_s]

That's fine for you serving mostly Americans in Key West, but this discussion is about liveaboards--wordwide, I would assume, and serving clients who live all over the world. As I said earlier, I don't see how a liveaboard operator in, say, Indonesia, can expect, say, someone coming from The Netherlands, to tip in accordance with the US custom.

Most liveaboards websites have outlines for ALL customers on what is the normal tipping customs for the boat/operation. It's not like it's hard to figure out, no matter where you are from.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Most liveaboards websites have outlines for ALL customers on what is the normal tipping customs for the boat/operation. It's not like it's hard to figure out, no matter where you are from.

Really? "Most"? You've done a survey? Sure, there are the big names like Aggressor and Dancer that probably have pages of detailed information on their web sites, but there must be a thousand smaller outfits out there. I booked my first liveaboard recently, and I am embarrassed to say that I was oblivious to anything about tipping. And that was after having visited many liveaboard web sites to compare prices and itineraries. I suspect you may be partially correct in that many web sites might have something in small print somewhere that the price "does not include tips" (probably the same place where it lists all the other things that the price does not include, such as Nitrox, alcohol, national park fees, etc.), but this does not necessarily make it clear to people coming from countries with no tipping culture that a 10% tip or whatever is not just suggested but rather, according to many in this thread, expected. If it's in the web site of my liveaboard, then I know I myself was oblivious to it. This thread is what made me realize that I had busted my bank account to pay for this trip but had not budgeted for a 10% tip. Yes, part of the frustration you may sense in my reply is with my own stupidity for not checking into whether a sizeable tip would be required on top of what I paid. Being an American, I am normally very conscious of tipping, but it hadn't occurred to me that I'd be expected to leave a tip of 10% or more in the part of the world I'll be visiting. I can only imagine that people who are not accustomed to the American tipping culture might be caught off guard even more. Unless of course they read Scubaboard regularly. To reiterate my opinion, if a liveaboard has certain expectations, their web site should not just say "tip not included" buried in small print about what else is not included but rather should just charge me the "tip" up front before I leave home, so I can budget for it and be done with it.

 

[Darnold9999]

Have to say that most sites do say that gratuities are not included. Generally this information is included where you find out that Nitrox, park fees, alcohol, etc. etc. ...... are not included. This might not be obvious on the web site, it may be in the planning document attached to the web site that you need to download, but it is almost always there in my experience. Many sites don't make it obvious as they want to hook you with the initial cost, get you sold, and then get the additional fees as an add on later. Very annoying. IMHO if the fee is not optional in some way - NITROX for example it should be included in the price quoted.

However, also in my experience, the amount expected is not as universal. Some have it as a suggestion, some don't.

 

[mike_s]

Really? "Most"? You've done a survey? .

Boat operators like happy crew.
Happy crew are treated well and paid/tipped well
Unhappy crew = unhappy passengers. Operators try to avoid that by making there tipping policies well known.

Here's a few examples. Not a "survey" but this is direct from these operators websites..... Hope this helps.

Note I know there are more liveaboards than this. But this is a good basis of some well known liveaboards.


M/V Spree
http://www.spreeexpeditions.com/PDF/2012/faqTortugas2012.pdf

Tips
How do the tips work?
Tips are voluntary and performance based. We recommend a
10% gratuity. The Captain will have a basket for tips when
tabs are settled at the end of your trip.
Who gets the tips?
The tips are shared equally between the crew.
​

AquaCat
Aqua Cat dive liveaboard Rates

Not included:
Dive & snorkel gear (available for rent)
Port tax, fuel surcharge & park fee
Crew gratuity (15% recommended)
Dinner Friday night
Airfare to Nassau
Nitrox ($150 for the trip)
​

BlackBeard Diving Cruises
http://www.blackbeard-cruises.com/scuba-dive-trips.html#rates

2012 WEEKLONG DIVE TRIPS : $939 plus port tax of $40, $10 underwater park fee and $50 fuel surcharge per person. Crew gratuity not included

​

Nassau Information

What is the recommended gratuity? The live-aboard business is a service industry, and although the general public is seldom aware of it, gratuities are a major part of a crewmember's salary. Few other recreational activities rely so heavily upon the professionals in charge for your enjoyment and safety. A gratuity of 15% is customary, but many leave more when they feel the service was outstanding. If you are disappointed with the service, you should inform the Captain of your feelings right away so he may rectify the situation.




​

Ultimate Getaway Dive Charters
http://www.ultimategetaway.net/about/what-to-bring/

Everything else is provided, except a gratuity for the crew, 10-15% would be greatly appreciated.





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Aggressor Cruises


Aggressor Fleet | Rates

The only costs not included are port/park/taxes (when applicable) fuel surcharge and crew gratuity so there are no surprises, no bills waiting.
​

CHARTERS DO NOT INCLUDE:

&#8226; Airfare (international and domestic)
&#8226; Insurance
&#8226; Equipment rentals
&#8226; Nitrox fills
&#8226; Certification or specialty courses
&#8226; Hotel stays/day rooms
&#8226; Dinner on final evening
&#8226; Crew gratuity
&#8226; Port/park fees and/or taxes (when applicable)
&#8226; Airport Transfers (Some yachts do include)

​

Each one of their separate ships has an info sheet. Gratuity information is included on those.
example: http://www.aggressor.com/_pdfs/KBYG_Baja-Guadalupe.pdf
​

GRATUITIES
Crew gratuities are not included in the charter. We believe gratuities should be voluntary and based upon
the quality of service the crew has provided. When settling your account at the end of your stay, the
Captain will have an envelope for gratuities that will be divided equally among the crew. Payment may be
made by cash, traveler&#8217;s checks or credit card
​

Peter Hughes Dancer Fleet

Each one of their separate ships has an info sheet. Gratuity information is included on those.
example: http://www.dancerfleet.com/_pdfs/PG_cocos.pdf
​

IS IT CUSTOMARY TO OFFER A GRATUITY TO THE
CREW?
Aboard the Wind Dancer, gratuities are not included. We
prefer that our guests&#8217; reward our crew based on performance.
If the crew performs to your expectations, we suggest
that a gratuity of approximately 10% of the published
package price be considered normal aboard a live aboard
dive yacht. Payment of gratuities is entirely at the discretion
of the guest. Payment of gratuities can be by cash,
traveler&#8217;s check, or credit card (Visa or MasterCard). The
crew greatly appreciate cash as local banking fees and
government taxes for traveler&#8217;s checks and credit card
processing reduce the amount of gratuity left on a credit
card up to 35% in some destinations.
When in Costa Rica, it is a local practice that a 10% tip
is added to hotel and restaurant bills in the major tourist
areas. Where this charge is not added, it is customary to
tip 10% - 15%.
​