Lionfish as Prey?

[DandyDon]

Do the groupers and eels not get stung when they eat the lionfish? How does that work? Are they immune to the toxins?

Yeah, the groupers and eels get stung, which is part of why the lions prosper. Otherwise they are very easy prey. If the sting did not bother the other predators, then the native fish would wipe them out as fast as they got big enough to attract attention. It could be that the native predators' instincts do not recognize juvenile lions are possible food, but I think that like with monarch butterflies - just a few bad meals accelerates education.

Once dead, it's easier for the native predators to pick off flesh while avoiding the spines maybe, the head seems to be a good starting place, but I really doubt that any Atlantic fish are going to go for the lions alive other than larger sharks - which are sadly been almost eradicated on reefs.

I hope that I am wrong, and it's worth a try to teach the native predators, but it looks grim.

 

[MMM]

Vids are generally much too large to attach. You can upload to Vimeo.com or Youtube, then link or better embed.

I am aware of latter but not former. In any event, thanks but I don't wish to upload to either. Just a general wariness of loading stuff onto sites that everyone and his dog can access and what all that might mean. I'm not a computer geek by any means so maybe I'm overly cautious.

 

[MMM]

I thought you could take a spear in the park if the spear was approved by the "officials" and if you'd taken some sort of course. Not true?

-kari

Here's a link to a thread a while ago which includes a copy of the recent Marine Park directive (en Espanol with an English translation).

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/363858-personal-first-2.html

The Marine Park authorities "approved method" is nets only. No spears. And, to the best of my knowledge, no course. There has been a lot of various interpretation in the past year and I think this was an attempt to set the record straight. Although it could use some improvement in my mind. I dive with a DM who has probably single-handedly removed more lionfish than any other DM on the island. Very adept at their capture and kill. But he is also observant to the letter of the law in the park to avoid any problems with park authorities. I can't say I agree with the authorities on this but the rules are the rules.

 

[DandyDon]

I am aware of latter but not former. In any event, thanks but I don't wish to upload to either. Just a general wariness of loading stuff onto sites that everyone and his dog can access and what all that might mean. I'm not a computer geek by any means so maybe I'm overly cautious.

Most files are limited to 200 to 400 Kb here. One is allowed to 1.95 Mb, another to 6.68 Mb, but even after reading some descriptions - I don't now what psd and odp are really. Oddly, a kmz file is limited to 2 Kb? I don't really see any video format allowed at all, not WMP, FLV, etc.

Doesn't Photobucket host vids now? Maybe you could upload it to a private account there, then share only the embedded code for it here? I've never done it nor seen one here, so not sure.

 

[divefamily09]

Last June when I was in Coz we fed most of the lions to eels. I have seen groupers follow divers looking for a free handout. Our divemaster had a grouper come up and nudge him when he had dead lions in the bag.

We brought a few lions back to the surface alive and "played" with them in a bucket on board. When you start to get an object close to them, in our case the ear piece of sun glasses, the natural reaction of the lion is to turn its spins toward the object. I think this lends itself to why eels probably won't hunt them. Eels have bad eye sight and if the spines are towards them when they try and strike the lion they will get stung. I agree with Don that it only takes a few attempts and they will pass and wait for the free hand outs so they can pick flesh and avoid spines.

I do wonder if eels might store dead prey. We found a small eel and ended up feeding it 3 lions and it seemed to just pull one into its hole and then come right back out for another and then another. I'm not sure if there is any scientific evidence of this, but it was interesting to see.

 

[MMM]

The fish and eels I have seen eating the dead (or dying) lionfish haven't been picking the flesh off. They have been eating the entire thing, spines and all. Usually in one or two gulps.

 

[divefamily09]

The fish and eels I have seen eating the dead (or dying) lionfish haven't been picking the flesh off. They have been eating the entire thing, spines and all. Usually in one or two gulps.

I have seen the fish and eels swallowing them whole as well. But when a small eel takes several larger lions in short order I don't really think it is eating them whole. Then again I also haven't seen a leftover carcass of a lionfish anywhere.

 

[DandyDon]

You wont ever see leftover flesh laying around. The crabs and lobsters will finish anything off.

So they will swallow them whole, huh? Then I wonder why they won't hunt them? I have nudged one with my dive light to get it into position for a pic. Very easy prey if the other predator doesn't mind the spines.

 

[baystr]

You wont ever see leftover flesh laying around. The crabs and lobsters will finish anything off.

So they will swallow them whole, huh? Then I wonder why they won't hunt them? I have nudged one with my dive light to get it into position for a pic. Very easy prey if the other predator doesn't mind the spines.

I was wondering the same, I have seen groupers and triggers swallow the dead lionfish in its entirety many times. I watch them for a reaction from the spines............and nothing, they will take another immediateley, so it's almost as if the toxins in the spines are no longer harmful when the lionfish are dead..............but I dont believe that!

 

[georoc01]

We have been feeding groupers and big snappers the dead or wounded lion fish. In addition, some of them are now following our DMs that carry a spear. If you remember the old feeding days in Cozumel, you know the groupers are smart! Don't know if they are hunting them but it is rare to see any hunting activity at all. We have also found that the lion fish are going deeper and deeper, likely to get away from DMs with spears. That may help reduce the pressure on small reef fish up top.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

This is certainly the case in Roatan. When I was doing my tech training down there last year, we saw lionfish condos, where the coral was just lined with lionfish between 140 and 165 feet.