Line skills

[Sas]

Proverbs 16:18

:cool2:

Have you done a Cavern course? Just wondering... as I found it an easy course and I am not a natural at diving at all. I did do the course after I had obtained decent buoyancy control and trim though. I think they are the core skills and because I was solid in those areas it helped a lot with my deficiencies in other areas (line work mainly) and I did well at the course. Cave was a lot harder of course, but at Cavern level I don't see why many would struggle (a few did in my course but had never dived in twins before the course and had never done line work before) I can see why John is confident about his buoyancy and trim (having seen him dive, he's not overstating ability which I seem to think a few people believe here?) and is more looking to move on to line work. That's pretty much what I did and I was *very* happy I learned and practiced line work before Cavern, just one less thing to worry about.

 

[TSandM]

I agree with Sas. If I had not had my disorientation in the dark issues to work through, cavern would have been a VERY easy class -- perhaps the easiest I've taken. But then again, I had a tech pass from Fundies (and a bunch of other training) so solid buoyancy, horizontal trim, good propulsion techniques, good communication (at the cavern level), comfort without a mask, air-sharing and the like were really solid before I got there. And those things are a lot of what a cavern class is about.

ITD, there are two reasons I can immediately think of, why you don't run two lines. One is that the more line you string around in a cave, the more line there is to get caught in -- and in some places, there really isn't even room (or perhaps enough tieoff spots) to get two lines in. (I have a mental image of the Devil's Ear on a weekend, if every team ran two lines in!) Another is that the person running the line, no matter how good he is, is having some of his situational awareness stolen by the reel. His buddy or buddies are, in addition to their normal awareness, monitoring him to some degree as well. It's the same reasoning as why most people don't like to have more than one camera on a team in a cave.

In practice, I think it's pretty rare to have the permanent line get broken, although it does happen, which is why we do lost line drills. When you are cave diving, you generally stay near the line, but not touching it, and if possible, not where you are kicking it, either. So there really shouldn't be any stress on the line.

I have dived passages, though, where the line was thin, explorer line and very old . . . if anything, I paid some extra special attention to the passage in those places, because the idea of following that line out blind wasn't very appealing!

 

[RJP]

Have you done a Cavern course? Just wondering... as I found it an easy course and I am not a natural at diving at all.

Yup.

Have you ever had one with the instructor I had?



Admittedly, my instructor kicked it up a notch as he knew that I was well trained coming into the class and that I wanted a very rigorous course that would genuinely set me up for solid skills to move on into tech/overhead diving.

 

[hudson]

Yeah, a drill-sergeant type will make it hard for you no matter how good you are, and probably harder if you are any good.

 

[Dive-aholic]

What Kevin's tip to me was, was NOT to use my breath while putting in a tie -- as I'm approaching the spot where I want to put the tie in, or tie in a reel, or whatever, adjust my buoyancy with wing or suit so that I can breathe quietly at normal volume while I'm doing the tie. I had a tendency to come up to the tie and adjust buoyancy by either breathing at the top or bottom of my lungs, whichever was necessary. I wasn't uncomfortable doing it, because I use my breath for buoyancy control without thinking about it nowadays, but two things happened . . . it raised my gas consumption, AND if I got distracted, I'd forget where I was breathing and I'd lose the pinpoint buoyancy I wanted. Coming in and making an adjustment, I'm totally stable, and I use less gas.

I'm not sure I understand this. When I start off into a cave, I will compensate for depth changes with my dry suit and wing, but minor changes happen with breathing. If I'm stationary, such as when putting in my primary tie off I just breathe. There shouldn't be a need to make any changes to your suit or wing. As I'm swimming along and just need to make a minor depth change, breathing does it...and my air consumption is pretty low. I also don't stop to put in tie offs. They are typically put in on the go.


ITD, as for 2 lines, that's more of a hazard than anything else. Cave line is pretty tough and won't likely break during a dive you just placed it on. And the permanent line is something you should be looking at as you go to make sure it is continuous. In several hundred cave dives I've come across broken line once. I fixed it and replaced it on my next dive there. It lasted about 6 months before breaking again. But this is in a very high flow system.

 

[InTheDrink]

Yup.

Have you ever had one with the instructor I had?



Admittedly, my instructor kicked it up a notch as he knew that I was well trained coming into the class and that I wanted a very rigorous course that would genuinely set me up for solid skills to move on into tech/overhead diving.

What were you saying about pride and falls???

 

[Sas]

Admittedly, my instructor kicked it up a notch as he knew that I was well trained coming into the class and that I wanted a very rigorous course that would genuinely set me up for solid skills to move on into tech/overhead diving.

What things did your instructor do to kick it up
a notch and humble you?

 

[Fish-R-Man]

Don't worry about it. You will learn line skills in your training.

You don't want to develop any bad habits ahead of time.

It's interesting how this thread has changed from the first responce that was sent to John's interest in learning about what skills are required for a cavern class to some very informative posts. I just completed a Cavern/Intro to cave class in Playa del Carmen a few weeks ago. The first day was a humbling experience. The first thing I had to learn is that I wasn't in open water anymore. From years of diving with out any real need to maintain perfect trim or buoyancy I found out I was just sloppy. I had a tendancy to go vertical when my instructor was demonstrating some thing or I would use my hands to flutter my way into the correct position I needed to be in. My frog and back kick were way less than perfect. It was embarrassing. I was diving with double AL80's and the first day I was too light. I added a V weight under my backplate and it helped, but would shift forward and back depending on my trim. Not a huge problem, but it added to the overall lack of control. By the end of the day I was whipped. Luckily by the end of the second day, I had it under control and could concentrate more on the drills and procedures than on maintaining correct position.
I actually wish that I would have started a similar thread to John's before I went down to take the class. Just having a general idea of what to expect as far as the importance of various skills would have been a great help. It would also have given me a chance to practice those skills and to unlearn the bad habits I had developed from all the drift diving in Cozumel....

 

[RJP]

What were you saying about pride and falls???

Trust me, I went in humble. (And came out even more so.)

:cool2:

 

[Sas]

Trust me, I went in humble. (And came out even more so.)

:cool2:

In none of your posts have you actually offered any help to the OP other than to basically say he'll be humbled (he's pretty humble actually, and just stating what he is good at and what he is not in this thread, nothing more) and that he is too proud (not true, I know John and I know what he is like in the water), so, just wondering why you are posting? I know this is going to come across as snarky - I don't intend it to be - but I really don't know what you are getting at.

You say you had a hard cavern class, cool, so what should the OP expect then, from a hard cavern class? Posting about this would be helpful to let him know what to expect basically... and I too am interested in what constitutes a hard cavern class. Like, how did you find it in comparison to Cave? What things did you struggle with? What tips do you have? And so on...