Line skills

[boulderjohn]

One aspect about both wreck penetration and cave diving that concerns me is my sense of direction. It's naturally piss poor (I'm dynamite with numbers though ).

How big a deal do you think this might be and any thoughts on steps to mitigate this unfortunate disposition? Or is it just a question of focussing on it more and seeing whether I improve? And what would you consider 'it' - compass work, landmark recognition, counting fin kicks, checking behind as well as in front? Any other things that are useful to keep one's sense of orientation and to feel and read the cave?

Cheers,
J

You will learn all of this as you take the courses.

The best way to navigate in a cave is in the title of the thread--run line. You will take line into the cave until you reach the main line (gold line). Then you will see how to follow that line, with its arrows regularly indicating distance and direction for you. You will learn how to deal with jumps, gaps, etc. You will learn how to read flow.

Be patient, grasshopper. All will be explained to you.

 

[InTheDrink]

You will learn all of this as you take the courses.

The best way to navigate in a cave is in the title of the thread--run line. You will take line into the cave until you reach the main line (gold line). Then you will see how to follow that line, with its arrows regularly indicating distance and direction for you. You will learn how to deal with jumps, gaps, etc. You will learn how to read flow.

Be patient, grasshopper. All will be explained to you.

Yeah, patience is another of those things I'm not great at

J

 

[Blackwood]

if you could elaborate at all on why slack line kills that would be appreciated.

The main thing to remember should be obvious, but often gets overlooked.

What's the line for? It's to get you out when you can't see.

If this had happened in a silted out wreck, I'd be posting this from the grave. (I'm the one in the background wearing wetgloves failing to get tension back in the line - LOL. Note that we are wearing blacked out masks in that video).

 

[Blackwood]

- keeping line taut

To that point, you need to learn to brake the reel. A number of grips will work. Some people hold the reel with their fingers and brake it with their thumb down on the spool. I generally hold the reel with my thumb and index finger and reach up to the edge of the spool with my other fingers to brake it, but I do switch grips now and again when my hand gets fatigued.

When you stop moving (say a teammate signals you to stop while he fixes something) its extremely important to keep tension on the line. You could just keep braking it as normal. You could engage the screw. I tend to just grab the spool itself (which keeps it from spinning), and hold it out to keep the line taught.

 

[InTheDrink]

The main thing to remember should be obvious, but often gets overlooked.

What's the line for? It's to get you out when you can't see.

If this had happened in a silted out wreck, I'd be posting this from the grave. (I'm the one in the background wearing wetgloves failing to get tension back in the line - LOL. Note that we are wearing blacked out masks in that video).

Well that looked like a wonderful cat ****! Made all the more enjoyable and pleasant by the apparent ignorance of blacked out divers to exactly what a fix they were building. But yeah, it makes a good point.

As to your first point - the line is to get you out when you can't see. Newbie question - is that the first function? Is it not to get you out when you can see? Essentially what I'm asking is whether line is considered a backup or whether it's considered the primary means of navigation?

Assuming the line was in place, and I was pointing the correct way, I would have thought the line was the 'master' navigator and my 'sense' of getting into or out of somewhere, would be the backup. You appear to be saying that line is the backup to get you out when you can't see. I have absolute zero experience in any of this so no questions loaded.

Cheers,
J

edit: that video really does show just how bad slack line can become. Friend to mortal enemy in one easy step. Cheers.

 

[ucfdiver]

Well that looked like a wonderful cat ****! Made all the more enjoyable and pleasant by the apparent ignorance of blacked out divers to exactly what a fix they were building. But yeah, it makes a good point.

As to your first point - the line is to get you out when you can't see. Newbie question - is that the first function? Is it not to get you out when you can see? Essentially what I'm asking is whether line is considered a backup or whether it's considered the primary means of navigation?

Assuming the line was in place, and I was pointing the correct way, I would have thought the line was the 'master' navigator and my 'sense' of getting into or out of somewhere, would be the backup. You appear to be saying that line is the backup to get you out when you can't see. I have absolute zero experience in any of this so no questions loaded.

I think the end result is you need to get out, "how" isn't all that important.

Cheers,
J

edit: that video really does show just how bad slack line can become. Friend to mortal enemy in one easy step. Cheers.

Referencing the cave is supposed to be used on exit as well as the line. I'm not really sure you could say that either takes priority over the other. Admittedly caves like Ginnie when I'm scootering I don't look at the line for periods of 1000ft or more sometimes, but caves I'm less familiar with like Little River I find myself referencing the line often.

 

[InTheDrink]

It's interesting how this thread has changed from the first responce that was sent to John's interest in learning about what skills are required for a cavern class to some very informative posts. I just completed a Cavern/Intro to cave class in Playa del Carmen a few weeks ago. The first day was a humbling experience. The first thing I had to learn is that I wasn't in open water anymore. From years of diving with out any real need to maintain perfect trim or buoyancy I found out I was just sloppy. I had a tendancy to go vertical when my instructor was demonstrating some thing or I would use my hands to flutter my way into the correct position I needed to be in. My frog and back kick were way less than perfect. It was embarrassing. I was diving with double AL80's and the first day I was too light. I added a V weight under my backplate and it helped, but would shift forward and back depending on my trim. Not a huge problem, but it added to the overall lack of control. By the end of the day I was whipped. Luckily by the end of the second day, I had it under control and could concentrate more on the drills and procedures than on maintaining correct position.
I actually wish that I would have started a similar thread to John's before I went down to take the class. Just having a general idea of what to expect as far as the importance of various skills would have been a great help. It would also have given me a chance to practice those skills and to unlearn the bad habits I had developed from all the drift diving in Cozumel....

****, I knew I should have posted a couple of weeks earlier!

What's humbling though is someone with several thousand dives admitting they have more to learn. That's true (self?) knowledge in my book and I wish you well.

Thx,
J

 

[InTheDrink]

Referencing the cave is supposed to be used on exit as well as the line. I'm not really sure you could say that either takes priority over the other. Admittedly caves like Ginnie when I'm scootering I don't look at the line for periods of 1000ft or more sometimes, but caves I'm less familiar with like Little River I find myself referencing the line often.

All these things must seem blindingly obvious to you no doubt, but they are absolutely not to me - so thanks for the insight.

J

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

Well that looked like a wonderful cat ****! Made all the more enjoyable and pleasant by the apparent ignorance of blacked out divers to exactly what a fix they were building. But yeah, it makes a good point.

As to your first point - the line is to get you out when you can't see. Newbie question - is that the first function? Is it not to get you out when you can see? Essentially what I'm asking is whether line is considered a backup or whether it's considered the primary means of navigation?

Assuming the line was in place, and I was pointing the correct way, I would have thought the line was the 'master' navigator and my 'sense' of getting into or out of somewhere, would be the backup. You appear to be saying that line is the backup to get you out when you can't see. I have absolute zero experience in any of this so no questions loaded.

Cheers,
J

edit: that video really does show just how bad slack line can become. Friend to mortal enemy in one easy step. Cheers.

J - For the record, I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Your questions are great, and your considered responses to the feedback you've received are awesome, too. I'm scheduled to take an Apprentice cave course in Mexico late next month - too bad you won't be one of the party, as I think you'd have a blast.

To my mind, the line you lay connecting open water to the main line in the cave serves two functions. First and foremost, it's your ticket to open water. Open water = direct access to the surface, which (I'm sure we'd all agree) is a beautiful thing. I use the line as my primary source of navigation. One's sense of the cavern's contours and unique features certainly serve as a 'back up', but let's assume it's silted to crap and you can't see worth a damn. The guideline is your Yellow Brick Road. Also, let's assume you graduate from cavern to the actual cave courses and are exiting a cavern at night. Naturally, you have no daylight winking at you to help illuminate certain features, and will be pretty much focused on your line.

Second, your guideline verifies that your exit is clear. This is more of an issue in a cave system with multiple access points. Lets say you're in a cave and the excrement has hit the extrusion device: you've failed to manage your gas correctly, all but one light has died, or whatever. You look at the main line and wow! The line arrows indicate there's a closer exit to the one you used. Do you take it? Initially, I thought 'Hell, yes" until my instructor all but smacked me over the head with his can light. "How do you know your exit is clear?" he asked. "You know this area is prone to floods...what if the exit you chose leads to a sinkhole that's completely obstructed with debris?" (we were in North Florida) "Even if it were OK...you're telling me that going to arse about in a cavern you don't know how to exit because there's no guideline there, while your gas is running low and your lights are busted?"

What can I say. He has a way of putting things!

 

[Blackwood]

As to your first point - the line is to get you out when you can't see. Newbie question - is that the first function? Is it not to get you out when you can see? Essentially what I'm asking is whether line is considered a backup or whether it's considered the primary means of navigation?

That's a philosophical question and I'm hardly an authority (not cave trained yet, very little actual wreck penetration experience). In navigating overheads, I tend to think of the line as being a backup.

Realistically, am I going to remember "right, left, up, left, right, straight past two passages, down, left, up, right, etc."? Probably not. And when I'm reeling out, I am actively following my line, and it may fundamentally be my primary navigational aide. But philosophically, I strive to not need it.

In any case, delete the "when you can't see" from my post and the intent stands. Imagine not knowing which way is out and coming across that rats nest. I'd probably silt the room out with the stream shooting out of my p-valve.

edit: that video really does show just how bad slack line can become. Friend to mortal enemy in one easy step. Cheers.

To be fair, it didn't "become slack," the instructor cut it. Being in surge and cold water gloves didn't help matters, but we obviously didn't handle it well.