Life back to ScubaPRO 109

[jprednik]

Hi to all ScubaBoard ppl,

I was adviced by some respectfull members off community to post mine experiances off last couple off days in here rather then Private Message them and keep conversation private; those letting others to benefit from it.

Situation: after 5 years of diving - lets say 50 dives per year i started to not like mine regulator (ScubaPRO MK11 + R395) anymore. I should state i never had a slightes problem with it, always delivered enought air, been reliable and 1st stage even after 4 years looks brand new. Dive profiles: dive time around 50 min, down to 130 ft (40 meters) for couple of minutes then up we go In this time and specially latelly i had opurtunity to test some other regulators (brand not really important; some of them really old as well). I found out mine takes quite the force to inhale comparing to others. As i dont belive MK11 would be the reason i acused mine R395 being the couse. I took it to a service to try readjust it to be easyer to breath but even after that i actually feel no positive difference. So i started to contemplate buying new second stage.
Candidates: G260, S 600, A 700,... but unfortunally found out the prices of them are insane. According to our local Scubapro supplier:
S600 = 330€
G260 = 325€
A700 = 430€
Price could get better with buying with first stage but i really have 2X MK11 wich is enought for me atm.
Yes ofcourse prices are better on Ebay and could get them cheaper but stil,... they are far away from cheap.

So i was reading what to buy on explore on experiances from the othe SB posters and came acros review of Scubapro 109. Review got mine attention. Somehow i fealth the 109 could be "upgrade" for less money from mine current second stage.

Luckly i remembered that 5 years back when i start diving there was a guy who stoped diving and actually was offering me his used gear wich i refuse at that point. I did remembered the beaten up circle shape of second stage - wich was SP 109. ran to him and bingo - got the 109.

Unfortunally i took it apart befoure taking firt pic as after reading ScubaBoard i decided to renew it.

Here it is in pieces:



After vinigar soak and cleaning i cam to decision that if i am doing it i want it to look prity as well. After more reading of SB i decided to goahead and take it to rechrome. I googled for a factory where i could do it and found one not far away (50 km). Picture from above was sent to him to get estimation on working charge wich came up to 20€ for bras+nickel+chrome and polishing work. I wasnt thinking twice and mailed him the parts. Ofc i was not going to sleap well until i would recive it back but unexpectedly i got mail next day to come and pic it up. I was wt*. All mine worries were away when i recived the master piece:

Everything came together perfectlly, work is awsome and fear about adjustment knob and orifice not fiting in was ower.

Going to the next steps: diaphragm cover is dried and teared so i need to buy new one. Reading SB this is something ScubaPRO does not provide anymore but i was happy finding one on Ebay by
Vintage Double Hose and order it right away. Later i was told i should ordered it directly from their web page where is 10$ cheaper. A well,... but did not kiled the exitment, specialy not after the great price on chrome work.
The rest parts are posibly stil reusable but ofc all orings would prolly be best to replaced specialy seat after not knowing to HOLD DOWN LEVELER WHEN ADJUSTING ORIFICE - Thx Gary
Anyhow i was thinking to upgrade the 109 to s-wing poppet and found a package at VDH one for 40$ + shiping = 50$. I tried to get a quote from mine local Scubapro dealer but in 4 days of talking on phone 3 times i got more or less back; call me later, this is something we sell to service guys, not sure if we have supplies ect ect. Basically looks like i cant get this localy.
Funny enought awap said this things are like chips and NEXT day a hunger for chips showed up and,....

New one showed up - the one to the left
Ofc i had to take it a part do the viniger soak clean and polish it and found out it is in GREAT condition. Also balanced. So really would need the service kit and is ready to go.


So atm i am here with 2 second stages that both need change orings, seats, or another one to be converted to balanced,... and i am looing at YELLOW CAP FOR 395 lol (making both mine R395 for octopuses now - second one for pony)

I got some advices how to adjust it once asembled. I have done that and testing it in bathroom it already feels better then mine R395

Guestions stays:

1.\ should i keep the existing orifice, s-wing, spring for the second regulator i got. Or better to say when its time to change those.
2.\ should i upgrade mine 109 to balanced or just change orings/seat - condition of parts:

3.\ when it is time to chage diaphragm?

As initialy i was thinking to change all apart from metal parts but having now 2 of this would come up quite expencive

Sugestions, opinions advices much apriciated

Did i decide ok doing what i am or should i really just save up for S 600=?

Wife isnt happy ofcourse sainyg: " u gona dive with this old crap?" LOL

I am also spending 2 much time now reading SB

 

[redacted]

Guestions stays:

1.\ should i keep the existing orifice, s-wing, spring for the second regulator i got. Or better to say when its time to change those.
2.\ should i upgrade mine 109 to balanced or just change orings/seat - condition of parts:
View attachment 197952
3.\ when it is time to chage diaphragm?

As initialy i was thinking to change all apart from metal parts but having now 2 of this would come up quite expencive

Sugestions, opinions advices much apriciated

Did i decide ok doing what i am or should i really just save up for S 600=?

Wife isnt happy ofcourse sainyg: " u gona dive with this old crap?" LOL

I am also spending 2 much time now reading SB

My philosophy has always been "If it works, don't fix it". Modified by the caveat of frequent inspection and repair of incipient failures (going to fail soon). Poppets will need to be upgraded to ones that work and will continue to reliably work. That pretty much means you will want the more current poppets with replaceable seats. No sense in replacing spring until it is bad. The orifice needs a close inspection of the seating surface and re-use. If there is a bad seating surface, it will show up as hard to stop the last little leak and poor performance. If the rubber on the diaphragm looks good, go ahead and use it. Same with the exhaust valve. But it is good to go ahead and collect spares of these parts for when a problem does occur (or for when the next regulator shows up). For now, I suggest you leave one unbalanced (109) and one balanced (156) just to see for yourself how little difference there is. The balanced version should do better as IP starts to change.

My wife also did a bit of complaining about these "old" regulators but I showed her that the working parts are the same as current production Scubapro regs like she has and that ended her concerns for my well-being. I still have to listen to things like "How many can you use?" but I think she sees that is not really slowing me down either. And, when I was able to fix up two other couples with gear for a recent trip, she was pretty happy.


BTW, USA Scubapro dealers (and most other brands) will not sell parts. As I understand it, it is not in their dealer agreement but the Scubapro USA strongly discourages such sales and our consumer protection law do not prohibit such exclusions. But some European consumer protection laws require that dealers sell such parts. I'm pretty sure this applies to Germany, Switzerland, and Spain; and I expect it applies to others. For a while, I was able to buy parts from dealers in Spain and Germany but it looks like Scubapro did some arm twisting and got that shut down for USA customers. You may be able to find more convenient sources in the EU if you can not get your local dealer to support you.

 

[jprednik]

Just to clear some things up: mine poppet for 109 IS NOT duro poppet=? looking at the seat diference (pic number 6)
And mine poppet for the 156 IS NOT s-wing poppet=? 1 oring onlly (pic number 5)

But basically if i change seats and o rings i should be good to go i belive? (and find proper lub). And best bet for finding them is Scubapro dealer? i guess time to go there personally,...

 

[redacted]

Just to clear some things up: mine poppet for 109 IS NOT duro poppet=? looking at the seat diference (pic number 6)
And mine poppet for the 156 IS NOT s-wing poppet=? 1 oring onlly (pic number 5)

But basically if i change seats and o rings i should be good to go i belive? (and find proper lub). And best bet for finding them is Scubapro dealer? i guess time to go there personally,...

That transitional balanced poppet you have should work fine. It takes the same seat as the s-wing poppet. If you are going to keep one unbalanced, you will need a duro poppet which then uses the simple "hockey puck" style seat as is used in all other unbalanced Scubaro 2nds including the R-series.

The online Scubapro dealers in GE and SP will not sell me parts to a USA mailing address. Maybe you will have better luck. Almost any scuba shop will have Christolube or an O2 compatible substitute. I buy my o-rings from O-Rings, Inc. Since 1958 - Buy Online. Good selection, reasonable prices, and available in small quantities with single shipping fee.

 

[jprednik]

It has been a year now and i have colected since 3 diferent 109's and 2 156. More or less in nice mint condition one is like from store including the MK10.

They been working flawleslly and once set corectly outpreforming many many today's second stages. I been geting lots of questions about them specialy after air sharing

i now have one totaly new MK25 never in the water or hooked to second stage and i am thinking just to sell it off and get another mk10 for the money and lots of diving

Been great to be able to get buy awsome dive equipment cheap and seeing how ppl pay tons of money for plastic fantastic