Level of Instruction

[O-ring]

if the instructors had shown me the final outcome of what a diver can do and be, it would have been a lot more helpful for me...instead of watching and trying to figure out for myself.

...but, the only way I know to see what you are describing is to take a DIRF. There may be other ways, like diving with people who are truly good divers and learning from them or having a GREAT OW instructor, but the only way I know for sure to see what a diver "could be" is to watch some of the GUE instructors in the water. Once they show you what you need to know, the rest is up to you to practice in the water. With a little practice you can be an excellent diver...

 

[ERP]

I think the real problem people are complaining about is what OW class is designed to be.

It's designed to teach the students a basic set of skills such that they feel "comfortable" and "safe" in a basic underwater environment. As the standards are written it's not designed to teach the student to dive it's little more than a prerequisite to be able to learn to dive.

I think the intent is that the instructors teach the students to dive as they see fit while adhering to the standards to teach the requisite skills. The reality in the compressed time frames that OW courses are being taught, many instructors do little more than go through the motions. Judging by some of Mikes and others here posts I guess I was lucky in so far as my instructor stressed keeping my fins off the bottom and other diving related skills.

The only real solution to this as I see it is (Short of adding another half dozen open water dives to the course) closer vetting of instructors so that they understand that it is their responsibility to teach "diving" as well as just the OW course.

 

[MechDiver]

O-ring once bubbled...
The least experienced guy in that DIRF class had 30 dives. I concede the point that these are people that: 1) are already certified divers and 2) actually care about diving well and are taking steps to improve it.

Agree completely.

I don't want to turn this into a GUE/DIR debate, so let's forget that for a minute and just talk diving. From people I have talked to (both on this board and in person), if students are held to a higher standard from the beginning they will surprise you and rise to meet the challenge. Maybe not all of them, maybe not to the level of magically hovering, but they will be more capable than the "bottom kneelers" in my photos.
I was thinking, and keep in mind that I am not an instructor so am talking out of my buttocks a little here, that you could show them all the skills in the pool and get them down while kneeling. Then, show them the skills while hovering and tell them that is how they should be performed. That's all a DIRF class does anyway...takes the skills we learned on the bottom and raises them a few feet.

I think what would be nice, and maybe also practical would be to have a fairly standard OW class, with the "enhancements" you talk about above, then immediately after, instead of the ole AOW routine, have a class that teachs just that. Doing skills while hovering and good, practical buoyancy control.

As you said, the better divers would probably go for that if they recognized it would improve their diving.

Phil

 

[mudguppy]

MechDiver once bubbled...
[



I think what would be nice, and maybe also practical would be to have a fairly standard OW class, with the "enhancements" you talk about above, then immediately after, instead of the ole AOW routine, have a class that teachs just that. Doing skills while hovering and good, practical buoyancy control.

]

I had thought that was what my AOW was all about .
Oh well. Must be my mistake

 

[MechDiver]

mudguppy once bubbled...

I had thought that was what my AOW was all about .
Oh well. Must be my mistake

Be very glad if it was, as, in my experience, it rarely if ever happened. I have no idea of how many AOW dives I've been involved with, but none, other than the buoyancy speciality class, had anything to do with my last post.

IMO we need to trash that name of "Advanced" and call it something else.

Phil

 

[mudguppy]

Is there really such a thing?
I can tell I have been WAY too sheltered
I thought I was happy with where I'm at. Maybe it's time to wake up a little and look around at what's out there. I'd like to get some awesome dive skills and I don't know that I will be able to staying in the same old pond

 

[MechDiver]

ERP once bubbled...
instructors so that they understand that it is their responsibility to teach "diving" as well as just the OW course.

Ahh, but is it? I don't think I agree. Driving instructors teach what is required to pass the test. Flight instructors teach skills and responses that are required to pass the flight exam. You learn to drive well, and fly well by doing it.

A scuba instructor is tasked to teach you enough to breath underwater and perform certain skills to a predefined standard, and not kill yourself. Thats it. Is it enough? Obviously in most cases it is. Is it the way it should be? No, but the mass market dictates the rules.

You know we have pilots that don't have licenses? Why? Because flight training is damn expensive and lots of people didn't want to spend that much.

Why we all think diving should be totally different I never have figured out.

 

[boomx5]

MechDiver once bubbled...
IMO we need to trash that name of "Advanced" and call it something else.
Phil

I would tend to agree.

 

[MechDiver]

mudguppy once bubbled...
Is there really such a thing?
I can tell I have been WAY too sheltered
I thought I was happy with where I'm at. Maybe it's time to wake up a little and look around at what's out there. I'd like to get some awesome dive skills and I don't know that I will be able to staying in the same old pond

We have to quit posting at the same time, I'm getting confused what we're talking about

PADI has, or had anyway, a class called Peak Performance Buoyancy. Depending on who and how it was taught, it could be quite beneficial. We used hula hoops to swim through and hover in, backward fining, and a couple other goodies. Think it was 4 or 5 dives.

Phil

 

[DiveTub]

HI Phil
The PADI PPB course is great, I tack it onto the end of every Open Water Course FOC. I believe the students get heaps of benefit from doing the extra theory and skills needed for great buoyancy not covered in the BOW class.

Quoted from PADI's site
"Why PADI Peak Performance Buoyancy?
If you want to fine-tune your buoyancy and to soar over reefs, extend bottom time by reducing air consumption and prolong the life of your dive equipment, the Peak Performance Buoyancy Specialty course is for you. "