Level of Instruction

[landlocked]

I am currently taking some specialty courses with the LDS. In reference to Mike Ferrera's contentions that begining divers are not being taught sufficient skills, I think the book that I just finished bears this out. I have concluded that the course book, Night and Limited Visibility diving, was written for students with the assumption that they have no skills. For example, it teaches that you should ascend and decend vertically while hanging onto a line with you right hand. This is safer, helps you to control your ascent/decent rate and prevents you from hitting the bottom, it also teaches that you should use a hang bar for your safety stop because it is easier, helps you maintain your safety depth, etc. (There are also several pictures with gauges dangling.)

I have to agree with the book. It is safer and easier but..... only necessary if you have no skill. Any mention of doing it differently has been left off. In the last paragraph, the book states that upon completion of the class you will be able to dive safely in almost any low vis situation! I think not if you can't maintain a controlled ascent or decent without a line.

My question, shouldn't some skill be assumed at this point? This is a low vis specialty class.

 

[MechDiver]

Most divers don't ascend and descend horizontally, nor is there any overriding reason to do so.

It is stupid to ascend free in low/no vis situations when there is a line available unless you want to prove how macho you think you may be. Free ascents in low vis are difficult and should be practiced to make the skill useful, but using lines to help implies nothing about your "skill".

Hanging off a bar for deco or saftey stops is different than using a DSMB and reel? You need, IMO, to get off your macho diver bit and get on with diving. Using aids to help during diving does not imply "lack of skills".

 

[O-ring]

Using aids to help during diving does not imply "lack of skills".

But, if you use those aids as crutches because you do not possess the requisite skills then you are diving above your skill and experience level and have no business in the water on those types of dives.

 

[mudguppy]

In my Scuba Instruction, I was taught to hold the line and descend vertically until I hit bottom. It wasn't until I went to Malaysia that I realized there might be a different way to descend....horizontally... and still able to keep track of the rope/chain if needed without ever touching the bottom.
In a low viz situation, I still feel much more comfortable just being able to see a rope, etc. even if just for a reference, even tho I have the skill to do it without.
I have had to somewhat get into dive situations that felt out of my range of skills in order to improve my skill...but note I was with instructors.

So, my question is: How is it I didn't learn of horizontally descending until I went overseas? Are the instruction manuals/instructors leaving some things out? Or am I the one not catching it to begin with?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Using a reference in low vis is not, IMO, bad and does not imply a lack of skill. What if you must ascend away from the line though. I mean if you can expect to ever need to ascend away from the line it would be in low vis. I think we need to learn to ascend and descend without a reference but use one if we can.

 

[mudguppy]

[/i]
. I mean if you can expect to ever need to ascend away from the line it would be in low vis. [/QUOTE]


Mike...
Could you give me an example of what you mean, at the risk of seeming dumb and to further my education.

 

[MechDiver]

O-ring once bubbled...

But, if you use those aids as crutches because you do not possess the requisite skills then you are diving above your skill and experience level and have no business in the water on those types of dives.

Do you have a speed control in your car? Remote control for your TV?

Sorry oring, I have to disagree. Granted you "should" have the skills to dive in a given environment, but how do you obtain those skills without diving there? You use aids under controlled training conditions (hopefully) to development the skills, then, also hopefully, practice them enough without aids to become proficient. Just because I can make a controlled unaided ascent/descent in zero vis does not mean I want to all the time. If there is an anchor line or DSMB/reel handy, durn tootin I'm gonna use it.

Phil

 

[MechDiver]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I think we need to learn to ascend and descend without a reference but use one if we can.

Exactly and elegantly stated!

Phil

 

[O-ring]

MechDiver once bubbled...


Do you have a speed control in your car? Remote control for your TV?

Sorry oring, I have to disagree. Granted you "should" have the skills to dive in a given environment, but how do you obtain those skills without diving there? You use aids under controlled training conditions (hopefully) to development the skills, then, also hopefully, practice them enough without aids to become proficient. Just because I can make a controlled unaided ascent/descent in zero vis does not mean I want to all the time. If there is an anchor line or DSMB/reel handy, durn tootin I'm gonna use it.

Phil

At least in part... I think that using a line is not a bad thing....shoot, if the current is ripping, I am darn sure gonna grab that line. However, like MikeFerrara mentions in his post, if the line is your lifeline and not just an "aid", then you are going to be in a world of trouble if you ever lose the line and cannot make a free ascent using a bag/spool. I think we agree...lines are not bad, but you need to have the skills to ascend safely without one just in case you ever find yourself low on gas and unable to find the line or get blown off.

 

[DiveTub]

If the line is there why not use it I agree blue water ascents and descents must be taught and mastered?

But if there is a bit of a current running why bother kicking to stay in contact with it? Using a line and resting is a far better way to offgas than kicking like a freak to maintain your position in the water.

Besides the book is just covering its ass so it does not get sued.

Mudguppy

So, my question is: How is it I didn't learn of horizontally descending until I went overseas? Are the instruction manuals/instructors leaving some things out? Or am I the one not catching it to begin with?

Yes your instructor left something out,unassisted ascents and descents are taught as part of the Open Water and Advanced Courses