leisurepro worth it?

[numan]

OK. I didn't write the full story before… Here we go…

When I was at OW training, I bought my fin, mask, snorkel and wet suit from LP as I thought they were not main life support equipment and I didn't care their warranty. So I saved $500. As expected, LDS became little bit cold to me. They weren't unfriendly however I could feel the difference.

Then when it came to decide regulator, bcd, computer etc, they immediately put the shopping list with prices front of me. I was still thinking and went to different LDS and asked the same questions. This time their approach was very different. Basically this new shop asked me some questions and showed what they have. Then offered me if I want I can take two/three BCD, Regulator and computer sets to test dives… So I did, first took them to pool where he was there with me, then took them to Dutch Springs (local diving area) to test. As result, I will buy BCD and Regulators from this new shop. Felt no pressure at all and got perfect support. Also I feel that as they are life support equipments, I wanted to make sure that I got them from right place.

 

[redseal]

Numan has demonstrated what I've been writing about in these forums: a good local store will offer to let you try various pieces of equipment before you make a decision; a mediocre or pi**poor shop just wants to sell, sell, sell. By allowing Numan to try several different setups the LDS encouraged the consumer to stay local and support the shop. One will probably go the way of the dinosaur, the other will stay in business and compete against on-line retailers successfully.

End of story.

BTW, how is Dutch Springs? My kids and I are thinking about driving up in September to take a dive or two. Is it a good place for relatively new divers? Do you know what the water temp is?
Any good places to eat nearby?

 

[numan]

redseal
I went last weekend water temp was around 75 on the surface and about 55 at 55ft...

I'm new diver and like DS. I think it is perfect place to try equipments or do training dive. Has lots of platforms (at 25ft~30ft) and you can try your skills. There isn't much to see however. I may go there again next weekend or two to try my new toys

There is diner end of the road, went there. it was okay, hey don't expect a lot from diner's right?

 

[Genesis]

If you have a couple of friends and you all go to LP for your gear - and the local shop goes under as a consequence - you can BUY A COMPRESSOR for the difference!

Then you're WAY ahead of the game - no more dependance on ANYONE.

Look, if it was a 10% difference the LDS would get my business. But its not. Its a 50% difference on most things - that is, its TWICE as expensive, or nearly so, to buy local.

If the LDS is pissed off about my cutting them out of that, its THEIR problem. Their only solution is to be more reasonable, quite honestly. Anyone who thinks they're entitled to mark up products like this 40-50% over what I can buy them for elsewhere, and wants my business anyway, is smoking some funny stuff during their surface intervals.

 

[pmcsurf]

I've bought everything but tanks from LP and saved a bundle. Like many have stated before me I'll gladly pay my LDS for a anual servce that would normally be covered by scubapro. I was looking for a Scubapro Air II from my LDS. They use them in their class and have them for sale used. They wanted $165. I tried to talk them down to $140 and they said no. I called LP and paid $124 for a brand new one.
My LDS does have good prices on tanks so I bought two from him just the other day but most everything else is DOUBLE and they wont budge.
I'm guessing I've saved over $150 in sales tax alone buying from LP.
I like my LDS guys... they are very friendly and nice, however, who likes to pay more than they have too? Pawn shops and yard sales are my kind of gigs. I hate to pay retail.
I love the remark someone made about feeling bad for the machanic because I change my own oil... Great line!

 

[Genesis]

tanks being one. My LDS includes 20 free fills (or 10 Nitrox-32) with a tank, and that makes the effective cost WAY cheaper than mail order.

I've bought some other stuff locally, and will when the differential is not great. I'm willing to pay a REASONABLE mark-up (10-20% TOPS) from mail-order prices for local knowledge and experience.

But for that I expect;

1. Products are in stock, and there is a reasonable demo program so I can try before I plunk down money.

2. Return policies that are better than "you bought it, you own it" if (1) is not available.

3. Real knowledge, not someone coddling and steering me. If you don't have the best product for what I want, be honest enough to say so. Also be honest enough to point out that there are choices, and some of them might not be in your shop. I'll respect you a LOT more for doing that than playing the "we know (and have) everything you need" game. I know that's BS; lie to me once, you won't get a second chance.

If you think that 100% mark-up is reasonable, then you're smoking dope. However the LPs of the world are sourcing product, the LDS can source the same way. They're either (1) doing so and raping you, or (2) not doing so which means there is something serious wrong with their business model.

Now the first time I find a product with a serial number ground off on a LP item I'm going to go after them with guns blazing. But until something like that happens (e.g. I believe I got a counterfeit product) I see no reason to pay 100% markups when I don't have to.

I like my LDS. I support them with my fill biz, even though I could mix my own Nitrox more cheaply than they charge. But for their extra money, I get monitored gas quality and someone else doing the maintenance on the compressor and such - something that costs real money (or time - same thing).

With hard product it doesn't work that way.

An Atomic Aquatics B1 is the same regulator no matter who I buy it from.

 

[grouchyturtle]

Every LDS isn't going to go out of business because you buy online. People are buying more of everything online these days, but will always make some purchases off line. Some shops will close, just like other businesses that were affected by web sales, but they aren't all going away.

I buy almost everything online now. Prices are much better. I just make sure I know who I'm buying from.

I'm also a little leery of the LDS here. Me and my friends know a few of them now from rentals, and buying our fins, masks, snorkels. Ran into all of them last week at the same place and felt a lilttle like chum surrounded by a pack of sharks.

Dutch Springs is great. We were there last week for the first time and it's def. going to be our new playground. There'se a few cool little things they sunk in there to see. It's also kind of cool that you can decide on the spur of the moment to go diving.

numan
You said you went to LP. I'm in Union. Do you mean you actually went there in person? I just noticed they're right in the city. Also is that new LDS you mentioned Regency? I was there yesterday for at least an hour. The guy was giving me all kinds of tips, telling stories, etc. and didn't even try to sell me a thing. By the way screw you old LDS, anyone that has an attitude like that doesn't deserve my business, regadless of their service and or prices.

Also everyone keeps saying they'll just get a compressor if the LDS goes away. Is it really that easy? What about Nitrox? I trust myself filling a tire with a compressor, but I don't know about the thing that's supposed to keep me alive down there!

 

[Genesis]

Its not a black art you know.

Actually, its science. You can buy Grade-E and Hyperfilters for most compressors. There are several companies that make these units for boats, you know, and people DO use them on their "yachts".

The smaller ones will go in your garage and aren't much larger than a lawn mower. The larger ones you've seen at your LDS, but you don't need that.

A continuous blender for Nitrox is pretty easy to construct, and aviators O2 is cheap - about a buck a fill if you're using it to make EANx32.

The issue is volume. For you, as a single person diving, unless you dive a LOT its not worth it. But if you and a half-dozen buddies get into it......

The idea that its "oh so dangerous" and "oh so tough" is just more nonsense from those who would mislead to gain your business. Its NEITHER dangerous or difficult if you pay attention, and knowledge is available - and not all that hard to get.

Do you want to do business who earns it with honest pricing and service, or someone who lies and tells you that you're going to commit Hari-Kari if you buy your own compressor?

 

[grouchyturtle]

Ok so it's just another instance of Put Another Dollar In propaganda. That's why I was asking. That book sure makes it sound a lot more difficult, risky, etc.

 

[Genesis]

You can buy, brand new, a compressor for a couple of grand. Runs on 240V single-phase power (you have it in your house - on your clothes dryer!)

Will fill an Aluminum 80 in about 20 minutes.

The dryer and breathing air filters are not free, but they're not all THAT expensive.

You can make a continuous Nitrox blending system pretty easily that goes on the inlet of that compressor. You have to be careful with it, but its not impossible to do (assuming you want the usual EANx32.)

Transfill whips so you can fill deco bottles aren't hard to build or buy either. OMS sells one, in fact, althoug they want a stupid amount of money for it. If you're going to do that, or partial-pressure blend Nitrox, then you need to be VERY careful, because you will be running pure O2 under high pressure into your tanks and/or through hoses and such - THAT can be dangerous and requires extreme caution and proper procedure to do safely, but once again, its hardly impossible to do on your own.

It simply isn't worth it if you can buy air fills for $3-4 though. Now they ARE popular on larger boats, because in some places, such as the Caribbean, they like to rip you for $20 for a fill, and at that price the compressor pays for itself FAST, never mind that you can fill them while you're taking your surface interval and never pull the anchor!

I looked into putting a compressor on my boat (I have a 45 Hatteras, and I have both the generator capacity to run it and also have the room to mount it in the engine room.) Its not worth it with us being local in Florida and having access to good LDSs, but if that was to ever change you can bet I'd buy one in a heartbeat.