Leisure Pro vs. Other Internet Retailers

[mike_s]

Two things here, first of all if LP gets their gear from poorly run shops that are going out of business or from foreign sources, how come they have the lates Oceanic Data Mask and the Aeris compu mask that many LDS's are still waiting to get? I guess Oceanic and Aeris ship all the "cutting edge" gear to the guys that are going out of business??

In the referenced case of Oceanic/Aeris, LP is an authorized dealer for Oceanic/Aeris.

So they would have chance of getting product just like any other dealer. However, in most retail/manufacturer relationships, regardless of product, the high volume dealers almost always get the product before the smaller mom/pop shops do.

But I understand the basis of your argument. If LP only got their equpiment from sources overseas or going out of business dive shops, there is no way they could get product before the other shops do......

A perfect example of this is when Aqualung released the ACD feature on its regulators. LeisurePro had them before the larger Aqualung dealers did. smells fishy doesn't it.... (especially when AL denies that they ship product directly or indirectly to LP).

Reading my friend is fundamental!!!

you're right here. often the message is on their website, but hard to find though. For example the part that says that it might come with a manual in a different langage isn't always on the same page the product is.

I personally think they should say whether its an authorized product or 'grey market' on the product page like retailers do for camera gear.

 

[Standingbear56]

One of the reasons many LDSs complain about gray market is not that they aren't able to, or aren't willing to compete with gray market pricing - their dealership contract with the manufacturer forbids them to compete through the use of MAP and other rules. Same goes for online sales. Stores who have Aqua Lung, Scuba Pro and Atomic aren't allowed to sell those products online - in store sales only. But gray market retailers continue to sell these products online. This is a major part of the problem. How can you compete if your manufacturer ties you up to the point you cannot, yet gray market retailers continue to get equipment that is easily traceable by the manufacturers?
George

 

[redacted]

One of the reasons many LDSs complain about gray market is not that they aren't able to, or aren't willing to compete with gray market pricing - their dealership contract with the manufacturer forbids them to compete through the use of MAP and other rules. Same goes for online sales. Stores who have Aqua Lung, Scuba Pro and Atomic aren't allowed to sell those products online - in store sales only. But gray market retailers continue to sell these products online. This is a major part of the problem. How can you compete if your manufacturer ties you up to the point you cannot, yet gray market retailers continue to get equipment that is easily traceable by the manufacturers?
George

All of those rules can be circumvented by any LDS that wants too. Many simply don't want to. Don't like being restricted from online sales by Scubapro? Carry and market other brands with no such restriction. Don't like price restrictions? Increase the value of the deal for the customer in ways your online competitors can't. Free air, free or discounted service. MOST LDSs want the protection they think they receive from such restricted dealer agreements. If they didn't, more mfgrs would be forced to remove those restrictions which would cause their dealers to move to other brands.

 

[ReefHound]

The way I look at it, I might spend a few $$ more but I know that at anytime I can go to my LDS and they will take care of any issues. To me the extra $$ is for piece of mind. I have NOTHING against web stores at all. It is just a personal preference of mine.

A lot of it comes down to how one defines "a few dollars more". I've seen so many claim that they would gladly pay up to 10% more to "support" their LDS but the difference is often 40% to 50% more.

Many people don't get such peace of mind or have such access. There are hundreds of users here who have supported their LDS only to be orphaned when the LDS closed it's doors. Others were effectively orphaned when they had a falling out from one reason or another. This is much more likely to happen with your LDS than an online etailer. I don't know of any large etailers (I wouldn't call DiveTank large) that has closed shop in recent years. I know personally of dozens of LDS that have closed shop.

BTW, notice that LeisurePro Brett has read and posted in this thread? Does your LDS owner proactively monitor public forums for issues concerning him and respond to address them?

 

[shoturtle]

Why?? Leisure Pro is a gray market

NO they are not just a gray marketeer, but also an authorized dealer of many of the brands they sell.

Mares, Zeagle, XS Scuba, Tusa, Oceanic, Aeris, Cressi, and some others. This can be check out by visiting these companies website and typing in the zip code of 10013 would work.

The only ones that they are not an authorized dealer of are scubapro, aqualung and diverite stuff.

 

[shoturtle]

Two things here, first of all if LP gets their gear from poorly run shops that are going out of business or from foreign sources, how come they have the lates Oceanic Data Mask and the Aeris compu mask that many LDS's are still waiting to get? I guess Oceanic and Aeris ship all the "cutting edge" gear to the guys that are going out of business?? Sorry, but if you look at what they carry and the amount they sell, you have to conclude they are buying from the mfg. They get the kind of deals in the scuba market that Warren Buffet gets on the stock market. They have enough money to get the deals no one else can get.

Oceanic DataMask HUD (Heads Up Display) Hoseless Nitrox Dive Computer, with Transmitter from LeisurePro.com

Aeris CompuMask HUD (Heads Up Display) Hoseless Nitrox Dive Computer, with Transmitter from LeisurePro.com


Second, why would your "friend" take his gear to another source to solve the problem? He wanted to exchange it for another one in psi instead of bar. They were right to send him back to the original source to do the exchange. Just as if he had purchased from the LDS in city A and wanted and exchange from an unrelated LDS in city B they would have told him to go back to the store of origin.

In fact, why don't you try that. Buy something from an authorized brick and mortor LDS, lets say a mask and some fins. Then go to another city and another LDS that is unrelated to the first and tell them the mask doesn't seal to your face as you would like and you want the fins in another color. Let's see what the authorized dealer tells you, OK??


Also LP clearly labels what metric/bar and psi. If you click on a bar gauge and order it, they will ship it to you. If you click on a psi gauge--you get that.

Here is a Genesis in psi
Genesis CG5736 200ft Compact Console from LeisurePro.com

and whoop there it is in bar!
Genesis Metric/Bar 2 Gauge Compact Console from LeisurePro.com

Reading my friend is fundamental!!!

I agree reading is fundamental.

If people have a question about weather a shop is an authorized dealer, they can find this info by going to the manufacturers websites. The info is there.

Mares, Oceanic, Aeris, Tusa, Cressi, Zeagle, XS Scuba are some of the brands that list leisurepro as an authorized dealer.

 

[Scubadad1]

Living in Egypt I, and my family, have used LP and they have been really good. In the UK many LDS are selling online and from their store and have had to move with the times. We live in a global market and sellers need to realise this.

As far as service is concerned, any reputable manufacturer will honour their warrantees and support their product regardless from where it was bought.

 

[Standingbear56]

All of those rules can be circumvented by any LDS that wants too.

Like How?

Many simply don't want to.

Not true - many simply cannot.

Don't like being restricted from online sales by Scubapro? Carry and market other brands with no such restriction.

What if the brands without the restriction are already carried by other shops in your area? Then they are not available to the little shop trying to get them.

Don't like price restrictions? Increase the value of the deal for the customer in ways your online competitors can't. Free air, free or discounted service.

We already do this, as do most online stores. Most of us are "Click & Mortar" meaning we also have a full service Dive Center along with our online sites.

MOST LDSs want the protection they think they receive from such restricted dealer agreements.

That can be a double edged sword - if you have restricted manufacturers, you may not be able to switch to others who are less restrictive if other shops already have them, as I stated above.

If they didn't, more mfgrs would be forced to remove those restrictions which would cause their dealers to move to other brands.

Very few manufacturers are going to step on the toes of a retailer who gives them hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of business for one who will give them a few thousand and is in the same area as the larger business.

Take Care,
George

 

[redacted]

Don't like being restricted from online sales by Scubapro? Carry and market other brands with no such restriction.

What if the brands without the restriction are already carried by other shops in your area? Then they are not available to the little shop trying to get them.

Are you saying there are not enough manufactures of regulators so you have to sell Scubapro or Aqualung because the shop down the street carries the other brands that have less price restrictions??? Leisurepro lists 17 Regulator manufacturers that they carry: Aeris, Apek, Apollo, Aqualung, Atomic, Cressi-Sub, Genesis, Hollis Gear, Mares, Oceanic, OMS, Scubapro, Seaquest, Sherwood, Tusa, XS Scuba, Zeagle. Missing from their list are Poseiden, Dive Rite, Beauchat, and a number of other tertiary names. So with over 20 regulator manufacturers, an LDS can't find one that will let them be as competitive as they would like to be??? Forgive me for being skeptical.

 

[rereynoso]

I think the "anger" at LP is misguided, especially when coming from your local LDS. Look, I work with a few of my LDS's and know what they go through, I try to support them as much as possible, and I know that many of them would LOVE to match, or beat, LP when you approach them with a print-out from LP and go "Look, this is what they're selling it for! Why can't you match it?!?" The problem is they're trapped by the manufacturers and their "rules" and the risk of getting caught and having, not only that product, but the WHOLE line, pulled, which, in today's market of mergers and buy outs, could mean 3 or 4 different name brands. So, the LDS matches LP's price for you, it leaks to the manufacturer, and then they lose products, which them means they lose potential customers, because "Well, they don't carry the brands LP does!"

Now, I have no hate towards LP, it's the American Way, isn't it, you hustle, you work hard, you find a market and a way to be successful, and you become another American Story, right? The problem is that in order to compete, whether online, or as a brick and mortar, there has to be a level playing field, if LP can sell for a certain price, then so should your LDS, without fear of losing the right to carry certain products. There are posters that like to point out that this is simply "Capitalism" in practice, but Capitalism only works on a level playing field...