Leisure Pro vs. Other Internet Retailers

[redacted]

I think the "anger" at LP is misguided, especially when coming from your local LDS. Look, I work with a few of my LDS's and know what they go through, I try to support them as much as possible, and I know that many of them would LOVE to match, or beat, LP when you approach them with a print-out from LP and go "Look, this is what they're selling it for! Why can't you match it?!?" The problem is they're trapped by the manufacturers and their "rules" and the risk of getting caught and having, not only that product, but the WHOLE line, pulled, which, in today's market of mergers and buy outs, could mean 3 or 4 different name brands. So, the LDS matches LP's price for you, it leaks to the manufacturer, and then they lose products, which them means they lose potential customers, because "Well, they don't carry the brands LP does!"

I don't think many divers really expect an LDS to price match Leisurepro, especially when it violates dealer agreements. But that does not prevent them from trying to value match Leisurepro on big ticket items like regulators. So LP is offering reg XYZ for $400. Your LDS has it with an MSRP of $600. So we are not talking "a few bucks more". They might offer a 10% discount but that is still $140 more (plus tax) and still quite a ways away from "a few bucks more". OK how about the LDS throws in the first annual service for free and/or 40% off on labor charges for as long as you bring it in per the mfgr's recommendation. If that is not enough, how about an air card or two. How about if the LDS throws in a free used tank with 1 to 2 years left in hydro along with free air and vis until the hydro expires. These kinds of things would allow the LDS to compete on a value basis and bring the customer back into the shop on a fairly regular basis. But it does cut into the profit margin which some shops are just unwilling to do.

It is not that they can't compete because of restrictive dealer agreements. They simply have made the business decision not to.

 

[rereynoso]

AWAP, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to "value added" dealing, I'm all for adding the extras to sweeten the deal, it's what I used to tell the guys at the shop I worked at. Yes, some customers do appreciate that, but contrary to what you state above there are plenty of customers out there that do expect you to match the price of LP and don't believe you when you say you're not allowed to sell something below a certain price. Remember, I've worked in dive shops, I've experienced this arguement first hand, and there's nothing one can say to convince them that you're not trying to put the screws to them. You offer them an air card, they say they can get air for free, you offer them a used product, they'll ask why would they want something used that they're going to have to pay to fix in a few years. They're focused on the bottom line, and bless them for that, it is a free market, but, it' already difficult to compete against someone that is simply web based vs Brick and Mortar, getting one's hands tied by the manufacturer only makes it harder.

 

[tridacna]

...but, it' already difficult to compete against someone that is simply web based vs Brick and Mortar.

Clearly untrue. LP has a store in NYC. And they do a ton of business there too. Ditto for Divers Direct and Scubatoys. All three have better attitudes to their customers too.

 

[rescue15]

LeisurePro is gray market - which means they are not authorized purchasers or sellers of most brands of gear. They get their gear from stores going out of business in liquidation sales or from overseas markets where there is no regulation. Many things on LeisurePro it really doesn't matter, like a drybox or booties, etc. But when you get into BCs, Computers, Gauges, and Regs it does matter as they have no warrantee if not bought from an authorized dealer. Most dealers will not service gear bought from LeisurePro for that reason.

Here is proof of LP being Gray market...this was copy and pasted right from their web site...

Warranty Policy

Leisure Pro buyers find the best products at the lowest possible prices wherever they are. Since (sometimes) that means that we do not buy it directly from the manufacturer, nor are we authorized by them to sell their products, so we are not bound by the official/unofficial manufacturer's suggested retail prices, and we can pass on the tremendous savings to you. In some instances the product will come without an English language manual or manufacturer's warrantee cards valid in the United States.

 

[rescue15]

AWAP, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to "value added" dealing, I'm all for adding the extras to sweeten the deal, it's what I used to tell the guys at the shop I worked at. Yes, some customers do appreciate that, but contrary to what you state above there are plenty of customers out there that do expect you to match the price of LP and don't believe you when you say you're not allowed to sell something below a certain price. Remember, I've worked in dive shops, I've experienced this arguement first hand, and there's nothing one can say to convince them that you're not trying to put the screws to them. You offer them an air card, they say they can get air for free, you offer them a used product, they'll ask why would they want something used that they're going to have to pay to fix in a few years. They're focused on the bottom line, and bless them for that, it is a free market, but, it' already difficult to compete against someone that is simply web based vs Brick and Mortar, getting one's hands tied by the manufacturer only makes it harder.

You can still violate MAP (which is illegal by the way) by providing "extra values". It happeded to me with my archery business. lost my bow dealership because I sold the bows at MAP price and threw in arrows, rest and sight.

 

[ronbeau]

I think I can answer your questions about why there is such a lightening bolt when the subject of Leisure Pro comes up on the boards.........

LeisurePro was the "first" of the big time internet scuba retail stores. When they began offering scuba equipment, there was UNIVERSAL industry opposition to discount equipment sales, and especially merchandise purchased from the internet. At that time, they rumor was that LeisurePro obtained all of their merchandise from secondary sources, as opposed to the normal direct-from-the-manufacture channel. There is considerable dispute about this, and I guess we will never have definitive proof as to the exact source of their merchandise, and like smart retailers, they are not going to tell you.

Today, LeisurePro is BY FAR the largest scuba retailer in the world. Much of their inventory comes directly from the scuba companies, under dealership agreements just like those signed by your local scuba store. Today, there is less opposition to internet sales of scuba equipment and several traditional brick-and-mortar store operate vibrant internet retail businesses. However, LeisurePro remains the largest and I expect that they will remain so for years to come. The gigantic revenue from their scuba and camera business allows them to spread their advertising far and wide on the internet. This is why the come up so favorably on search engines. Money can buy you lot of exposure. So can years of successful customer service.

LeisurePro is my competitor, and like all of my competitors, my business would be probably be better off without them. However, this is no reason for anyone to describe them as anything less than they are......a strong and gigantic competitor run by serious and real businessmen.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

You sir are definately a class act. Your post says a lot about your honestly and integrity. To bad all businesses do not follow your lead.

 

[rescue15]

Today, LeisurePro is BY FAR the largest scuba retailer in the world. Much of their inventory comes directly from the scuba companies, under dealership agreements

How can this be true? LP states on their own web site they get their merchandise from other sources.

I have no anger towards them. However the one time I ordered something from them I got 4 emails from them in as many weeks saying they couldn't deliver what I ordered, offered me a substitute 3 times and after I was told the third substitute was unavailable I canceled the order. I spent a little more at my LDS but left the store with exactly what I ordered.

 

[ronbeau]

How can this be true? LP states on their own web site they get their merchandise from other sources.

I have no anger towards them. However the one time I ordered something from them I got 4 emails from them in as many weeks saying they couldn't deliver what I ordered, offered me a substitute 3 times and after I was told the third substitute was unavailable I canceled the order. I spent a little more at my LDS but left the store with exactly what I ordered.

I have never had any problems with LeisurePro in over 4 years. The one time a piece was missing from something my wife bought me she called and I had the missing piece the next day along with a apology for the inconvenience.

I have also had occasion to return some things because I changed my mind and they took them back with no hassles.

Every business has occasional burps, the measure of a good business is what they do to correct the mistake once they are aware of it.

Also, the web site clearly indicates what is in stock and what is out of stock.

 

[Standingbear56]

Are you saying there are not enough manufactures of regulators so you have to sell Scubapro or Aqualung because the shop down the street carries the other brands that have less price restrictions??? Leisurepro lists 17 Regulator manufacturers that they carry: Aeris, Apek, Apollo, Aqualung, Atomic, Cressi-Sub, Genesis, Hollis Gear, Mares, Oceanic, OMS, Scubapro, Seaquest, Sherwood, Tusa, XS Scuba, Zeagle. Missing from their list are Poseiden, Dive Rite, Beauchat, and a number of other tertiary names. So with over 20 regulator manufacturers, an LDS can't find one that will let them be as competitive as they would like to be??? Forgive me for being skeptical.

Hi Awap,
You can be can be as skeptical as you would like. I'll give you a real life local example: A LDS near us carries Aqua Lung and Mares. This knocks out Aqualung, Apeks, Seaquest (all under the Aqua Lung Banner now) and Mares. We carry Aeris, Atomic, Cressi, Hollis, Oceanic, OMS, Zeagle and Dive Rite. Other stores in their territory carry Apollo, Genesis, Scubapro, Sherwood, Tusa XS and Poseidon. Since these are protected territories, they only have access to the lines he already carries - PERIOD. What can they do? I'm only using the manufacturer's that you gave - there are others included in this such as Promate, Armor etc. but the results are the same.

Hope this puts things in a better prospective for you.
Safe Diving,
George

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

What can they do?

Sell Salvo or one of the brands AWAP didn't list. If you want to compete, you can find a way to do it.