Legality of "cave fills"

[formernuke]

I think that the words “in commerce” are important here somewhere.

Once moved from one place to another it is in commerce.

 

[Wookie]

If I fill my steel 95 using my compressor and move it to the dive site in my truck I have not transported in commerce.

I don't have a steel 95, or any inclination to overfill a cylinder, but I have all of the other things.

 

[cerich]

Once moved from one place to another it is in commerce.

Article on "In commerce"

only if money is being made basically.

So, an instructor transporting to teach/guide is for sure in commerce. Joe diver driving to go on a fun dive, not so much.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

No that honor is family, yours are second.

Huh?

 

[MidOH]

So its just another dive shop scam?

 

[cerich]

So its just another dive shop scam?

not filling past rated pressure? No, this isn't a scam, it's them filling them and taking the risk it will blow up if fails while filling (the most likely time would fail such), why would they ignore manuf and DOT specs that apply in commerce to fill a tank higher when it could be literally them turned into hamburger?

I won't fill my own alm cylinders past 3300 hot, because don't want to possibly die, as much as I would love to jam them to 5000/ My LP steel, while some folks are comfortable with fills to 4000 or even higher, I fill past rating but 36-3700 hot is my "enough" for my own safety while filling, even having gotten hundreds of fills in same tanks to 4k or really close to when in cave country

 

[boulderjohn]

A dive shop I used in South FLorida would not fill my LP steel tanks TO the rated pressure (except for one employee). The fills used to be about 2500 instead of 2640. The manager told me it was too dangerous to give me more. He could not put his employees at such risk. I eventually went elsewhere for my fills, but they were so convenient--the shop was right next to to their boat.

One day I boarded the boat, and they all made the decision to change dive sites, and the site they chose was too deep for my EANx mix. One of the crew members--the guy who was doing the fills who had to be protected by shop policy--told me he would lend me one of his personal tanks for the dive. When I got it, I saw it was an LP steel tank--filled to 3800 PSI.

 

[KenE]

"In Commerce" has been defined as transporting material on an interstate highway for non-commercial purposes because it "affected" transportation between states. So, I would not say DOT does not have jurisdiction, because due to case law, they do. However, it is not the filling station, but the transporter who is liable. The hard part to validate is the actual pressure of the tank that failed, other tanks in vehicle can matter in civil cases, but still circumstantial at best because the tanks can be filled independently and the actual pressures will vary.

 

[TravisD]

Out of curiosity - are the insurers who are still covering dive operations including anything on this in policy declarations? Do policies even get into any specifics on fills/cylinders/etc?

 

[boulderjohn]

Out of curiosity - are the insurers who are still covering dive operations including anything on this in policy declarations? Do policies even get into any specifics on fills/cylinders/etc?

If you are teaching tank inspection, cleaning, etc., you should have your insurance cover that. Otherwise, it is not part of it.